Lets talk dream tanks

misterking

Superstar Fish
Aug 12, 2008
1,124
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Manchester, UK
www.facebook.com
#81
how was i supposed to know that them goldfish would be bad? (even thou i still dont understand how)
Introducing a foreign species into an ecosystem can be absolutely disastrous. Goldfish are large, hungry, messy fish that produce a lot of waste, as we well know. They stir up the bottom of ponds, lakes etc that they're released into, causing the water to become cloudy and dirty when it was clear before, disturbing toxic gases that build under the substrate. If the population increases enough, as in a tank, ammonia levels increase, and the dissolved oxygen decreases. Fish native to the pond or lake that live there because of the specific conditions before the goldfish were introduced are killed because they can't cope with the poor water quality. Smaller and less robust species are out-competed for food and starve, and decrease in numbers. Inverts are eaten at a rate their population can't cope with. The entire natural balance of the pond or lake is ruined. And because goldfish tend to revert back to their natural colouring (brown/black) within a few generations of breeding, they are very very hard to get rid of.

A very good example of why introducing species can be so detrimental is the introduction of an American species of crayfish to British waterways. Our native population of crayfish are smaller and less robust, and are killed, eaten, and out-competed by the American species, and the native species is under a lot of threat because of it.

The same applies to the introduction of American grey squirrels to the UK, which have pushed our smaller native red squirrels to a few very isolated pockets in preserved woodland. And again, for the introduction of dingos to mainland Australia.

I hope that explains it.

And I dont consider myself a noob because i know ALOT!
Just because you know "a lot" doesn't make you not a newbie. That comes with EXPERIENCE. Experienced aquarists don't make silly, avoidable mistakes. I didn't consider myself experienced until a good 8 years after I started keeping fish.

This is such a tiring process, I'm so bored of the fuss!
 

Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
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Yelm, WA
#82
Good job MK! After all this "fuss" lets hope some good comes from it. I am willing to bet that there are other people who read this forum who didn't know gold fish couldn't just be dumped anyplace and why. There are so many myths it is sometimes hard to sort things out. As a kid in Northern WI, my Dad told me goldfish were commonly found all over in ditches and small streams. I believed him for years, but I searched and never found any. I still don't know where gold fish natural habitat is, I just am relatively sure its not northern WI. lol
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#83

Fishman1995

Superstar Fish
May 11, 2010
1,341
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North Carolina
#86
I would like to appologize to bass because her and OC's Profile pic looks ALOT alike so i got them confused, as for MK, Being experinced has nothing to do with being an expert, being an expert at something means you know alot about it and can care for most any species of fish and thirdly id like to wish you all a fellow goodbye, this is the last post of Fishman1995. Goodbye to all, some of you will be missed.
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
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Chesapeake, Virginia
#87
Goodbye. See you in a week, or the next post maybe.

If you're still reading I'd like you to notice that even in this last comment you're being confrontational and argumentative.

I don't mean you any ill will. Good luck with your fishkeeping and good luck with your parents understanding what goes on.
 

Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
0
0
Yelm, WA
#89
Thanks for the response OC, I had come to realize I must of wasted a lot of time "hunting" goldfish! When I was very young (5 - 7) I had a butterfly net and always wanted to catch a bird. My Mom knew how to keep me occupied - she'd give me a little sauce with a couple of tablespoons of whiskey and a couple of cubes of bread. Told me the birds would drink it, get drunk, and be easy catches. Kept me occupied for hours. Never saw a bird take even a sip! lol I think looking for goldfish was along the same line.
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#90
Lol, hunting goldfish with a net would get you busted by the game warden in most states....unless you're a card carrying member of an american indian tribe. Most states have net law exemptions for them.

Thanks Dylan. I tried not to sound like a big meanie. I just hope he can get some help with his inability to accept constructive criticism.
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#92
I didn't think our avatars looked so alike *shrug*

Fishman1995, I am sorry that you took offense to the comments I made (and not bassbonediva). I realize that you are a child and under the control of your parents, and did not have the ability to 'overrule' your dad's decision to introduce the goldfish to the local ecosystem.

You DO have the ability to use the Internet, obviously, so it shouldn't take too much effort to find out that those of us that voiced objections to the action are not just 'being mean' to you, but are shocked that it happened.

The ":D" comment at the end of your announcement that there are lots of goldfish in the waterways now indiciated to a lot of us that you saw no problem with what had been done. Lots can be learned about the hazzards of introducing non-native species to the waters of your city/county/state/country.
 

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misterking

Superstar Fish
Aug 12, 2008
1,124
0
0
Manchester, UK
www.facebook.com
#94
Good job MK! After all this "fuss" lets hope some good comes from it. I am willing to bet that there are other people who read this forum who didn't know gold fish couldn't just be dumped anyplace and why. There are so many myths it is sometimes hard to sort things out. As a kid in Northern WI, my Dad told me goldfish were commonly found all over in ditches and small streams. I believed him for years, but I searched and never found any. I still don't know where gold fish natural habitat is, I just am relatively sure its not northern WI. lol
The origin of the modern domesticated goldfish (Carrasius auratus auratus as OC said) is somewhat debated and cloudy. Like domestic dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) which were bred into a new subspecies by humans from grey wolves (Canis lupus), a species of small river carp from south-east Asia (generally accepted to be the Prussian carp, Carrasius auratus gibelio) was domesticated and bred in China for food fish. Now and then the "gold" mutation, and the various colours we see today, would occur, and these were selectively bred, something to do with luck or imperial colours, I can't quite remember. It's been debated before that the true ancestors may indeed be the crucian carp, Carassius carassius, but this has since been proved incorrect (markings found on wild crucian carp are never found on goldfish, despite the similarities in build and size).

The story is very similar for koi - the common carp has the same ability in its genes to produce colour mutations and these have been selectively bred out, again originally in China, to produce the stunning array of colours and scale patterns commonly found today.

In short they're from south-east Asia, definitely not northern WI. I tend to waffle a bit about goldfish, done a fair bit of research on them in my time :p

On a side-note, I never mentioned "expert" in my post. Experience and expert are very much different, I do not consider myself an expert as I am, with just about everyone on this forum, still learning (I'm only 19 myself! I just had the luck of starting in the hobby very early). I also doubt this is the last we'll see of Fishman. We'll just probably get another new member come along who may not be who they say the are.. like "bettalover15" or whatever it was!

I find it a great shame that some people take things so to heart and opt to remain ignorant when they disagree with the constructive criticism offered by the various regulars on this forum, though this is now turning into a "boy who cried wolf" situation for me. I don't think anyone should feel they have to leave a forum but I also don't think our advice and criticism has been particularly harsh, I think it's been fair and concise. Unfortunately the more sensitive among us misconstrue this as harsh.

ANYWAY, enough of this, let's get back to what this thread is actually about - dream (but realistic!) tanks! *thumbsup2
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#96
Edit: OC, you're both babes* with blue bettas. ;)
(*Babes added to coincide with the B theme)
My fish is not a betta tho :p He's a Badis badis (also in the B theme tho).

For a dream tank, I want a 125gallon planted tank full of 100 Otocinclus cocama, 100 Indostomus crocodilus and 200-300 Boraras brigittae, pressurized CO2, 4WPG lighting, canister filter and several submerged powerheads using sponges for water movement and an autodrip dispensor of vinegar eels and infusoria.
 

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Apr 14, 2008
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#97
It's funny, OC...I used to think you had a blue betta as your avatar[but it's way different then Paige's IMO] until I kinda made the connection it was a badis badis so aak isn't the first one to think it's a betta.. :p

Your dream tank sounds awesome...but I'm curious as to if 100 otos could out compete each other in even a 125??

BTW, Sorry for any typos & such...I'm *STILL* getting used to my new laptop's keyboard...I'm used to desktop computer's keyboards now being that I've been using them for the last...almost year now...
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#98
It's funny, OC...I used to think you had a blue betta as your avatar[but it's way different then Paige's IMO] until I kinda made the connection it was a badis badis so aak isn't the first one to think it's a betta.. :p
LOL!

Your dream tank sounds awesome...but I'm curious as to if 100 otos could out compete each other in even a 125??
I certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone else to do 100 otos in that sized tank unless the person is extremely dedicated to provide them with algae. I currently keep a 29gallon tank with 27 otos in it. I have had luck spawning them in a 'community' tank with lots of different kind of fish that likely made snacks of their eggs. I grow 'algae logs' and 'algae rocks' in a 5 gallon tank with 2 gallon of water in it, and 10watts over it. I drain the water from the tank each week and fill it to the two gallon mark with water I'm taking out of one of the other tanks (more ferts in it in the form of fish waste).
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#99
Lol, right now I think I could give you my water change water and they could live for a year. I can "almost" see the backs of my tanks again.

It's that piece of grass in the middle of the pic that threw me off.
 

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