Im soooo scared!
- Thread starter RedTurquoise
- Start date
*Update*
It is now a week! Just to recap, the towel is covering around 30-40% of the tank where they all dash madly into the corner. I left it this way because then they can not see me moving around especially during water changes. They usually stay there for the most part. I have been doing around 80% water changes (aged water), treating with salt, feeding 4-5x a day, temp now at 90F (adjusted from 86 a couple of days ago).
Behaviour!
For the most part, they have relaxed a little bit. However, not all of them. Some (2-3) do not trusted me yet and hang around the back of the tank. They are a little unsure but seem to be getting better. During water changes with me hands and tubes in the tank they are scared. This morning, 80% of them were waiting near the top waiting for food. That was encouraging. They did not dash away like in the past week. I think Im winning their trust step by step. I do hope that in a week or so, I can remove the towel totally. I just want to leave the towel there so that they can 'hide'.
It is now a week! Just to recap, the towel is covering around 30-40% of the tank where they all dash madly into the corner. I left it this way because then they can not see me moving around especially during water changes. They usually stay there for the most part. I have been doing around 80% water changes (aged water), treating with salt, feeding 4-5x a day, temp now at 90F (adjusted from 86 a couple of days ago).
Behaviour!
For the most part, they have relaxed a little bit. However, not all of them. Some (2-3) do not trusted me yet and hang around the back of the tank. They are a little unsure but seem to be getting better. During water changes with me hands and tubes in the tank they are scared. This morning, 80% of them were waiting near the top waiting for food. That was encouraging. They did not dash away like in the past week. I think Im winning their trust step by step. I do hope that in a week or so, I can remove the towel totally. I just want to leave the towel there so that they can 'hide'.
*Update*
I did my 3 water changes yesterday & one so far today. They still hide behind the sponge filter while I'm in there but they come out much faster then before. They are now out swimming about when the water is refilling. They are also eating my beefheart & are trying the Mysis shrimp. They come to the glass when they see me but get a bit freaked out when I drop the food in. There are 3 that are braver and come to the food immediately, this causes the rest to follow.
Just my experience but if you tip-toe around the fish you'll only prolong their skittishness. When I remove the lid they freak out as I have to slide it off and it causes vibrations. But they are going to have to get used to it so I just do it. The same with water changes, I'm equally clumsy with the new guys as my old ones. They'll get used to me, and much quicker if I act normal. I'm not criticizing what you're doing but in my opinion it's a mistake to try to accomodate new fish with a towel, or turning off the lights etc. Just treat them the way you plan to in the future and they'll get there faster. If they're eating then there is little to worry about.
My Red Pigeon S/S have been with me for about 2 months. When I feed them they are literally sideways flipping up at the water surface trying to get the food. I can catch them in a tiny juice cup if I wanted to, or grab them by hand. They have no fear of me and peck at the water change pipe when I'm in there. The shock of you bouncing around in front of the tank should be a short one. They don't remember this stuff. If they did then they'd hide for a month after you moved them from one tank to another. I'm moving almost all of my fish around today. I just moved 20 adults into the 180g tank after moving 40 adolescents out. The adolescents were hungry at the tank glass within 20 minutes of getting to their new tank. The adults take a little longer to regain confidence in my sanity but an hour later they're looking for food.
Sorry for the long post. But I've been there, done that. The fish in my first Discus tank were skittish for 6 weeks. I tried everything to accomodate them. In the end I should have done nothing to accomodate them, I just should have ensured that the water was clean, tank was clean and allowed them to get used to me. A gravel bottomed tank is the best way, in my experience, to make new fish skittish.
Dave
I did my 3 water changes yesterday & one so far today. They still hide behind the sponge filter while I'm in there but they come out much faster then before. They are now out swimming about when the water is refilling. They are also eating my beefheart & are trying the Mysis shrimp. They come to the glass when they see me but get a bit freaked out when I drop the food in. There are 3 that are braver and come to the food immediately, this causes the rest to follow.
Just my experience but if you tip-toe around the fish you'll only prolong their skittishness. When I remove the lid they freak out as I have to slide it off and it causes vibrations. But they are going to have to get used to it so I just do it. The same with water changes, I'm equally clumsy with the new guys as my old ones. They'll get used to me, and much quicker if I act normal. I'm not criticizing what you're doing but in my opinion it's a mistake to try to accomodate new fish with a towel, or turning off the lights etc. Just treat them the way you plan to in the future and they'll get there faster. If they're eating then there is little to worry about.
My Red Pigeon S/S have been with me for about 2 months. When I feed them they are literally sideways flipping up at the water surface trying to get the food. I can catch them in a tiny juice cup if I wanted to, or grab them by hand. They have no fear of me and peck at the water change pipe when I'm in there. The shock of you bouncing around in front of the tank should be a short one. They don't remember this stuff. If they did then they'd hide for a month after you moved them from one tank to another. I'm moving almost all of my fish around today. I just moved 20 adults into the 180g tank after moving 40 adolescents out. The adolescents were hungry at the tank glass within 20 minutes of getting to their new tank. The adults take a little longer to regain confidence in my sanity but an hour later they're looking for food.
Sorry for the long post. But I've been there, done that. The fish in my first Discus tank were skittish for 6 weeks. I tried everything to accomodate them. In the end I should have done nothing to accomodate them, I just should have ensured that the water was clean, tank was clean and allowed them to get used to me. A gravel bottomed tank is the best way, in my experience, to make new fish skittish.
Dave
Makes sense Dave! And because of my inexperience, Im not sure what to really look for. What I mean by that is when Im doing a water change, the discus are sooo frightened that Im sure that could kill themselves; bashing around, into each other and my worst fear, jumping out of the tank. Looks painful just watching. But then again, maybe that is normal when first getting new discus! I dont know! Its really funny because my 20G with 2 adult discus is right beside my 30G and they 'love' me; waiting a the front, swimming sideways like you mentioned. Patience is the key but Im just worryed that Im stressing the new arrivals out. I'll be taking off the towel tonight and see what happens. I guess I do have to understand that Ive only had these fish for 2 weeks therefore I must give them time. Clean water and tank is being provided (no gravel)!
Thanks Dave!
Cloth,
You would not use a bare bottom tank?
Thanks Dave!
Cloth,
You would not use a bare bottom tank?
I'd prefer a nice planted tank with sand. But the topic is skittish, baby Discus. And in my experience baby Discus don't do well in tanks with substrate and all of the crap that's buried in them. For me the beauty of the tank is the fish. And it's hard to find beauty in a bunch of fish hiding behind the filter. I fully appreciate the look of a nice planted tank... I've had one (shown here)
(and here)
But if you have multiple tanks (and a life) it's just not possible to maintain these tanks set up this way. And in the end the fish suffer. I wouldn't even consider it with adolescent fish. And my adult Discus hated it, wouldn't eat for the month they were in the tank.
Dave
(and here)
But if you have multiple tanks (and a life) it's just not possible to maintain these tanks set up this way. And in the end the fish suffer. I wouldn't even consider it with adolescent fish. And my adult Discus hated it, wouldn't eat for the month they were in the tank.
Dave
*Update*
It is now day 4. Today the Golds ate some live Red Wigglers and loved them. They are also now eating the beefheart that I feed them, that took awhile to get used to. They also love Hikari bloodworms & P.E. Mysis shrimp. The tank is now bare after each feeding whereas they were less confident in their feeding before. They're at the glass now when I enter the room and some even stay there when I start siphoning. These guys are now what I call fully acclimated.
Dave
It is now day 4. Today the Golds ate some live Red Wigglers and loved them. They are also now eating the beefheart that I feed them, that took awhile to get used to. They also love Hikari bloodworms & P.E. Mysis shrimp. The tank is now bare after each feeding whereas they were less confident in their feeding before. They're at the glass now when I enter the room and some even stay there when I start siphoning. These guys are now what I call fully acclimated.
Dave
Cool!
*Update*
Last night the discus also came to the front of the tank to be fed. 
However, when I started to do a water change, off in the corner they were and frightened. I just ignored them. I also removed the towel totally. This morning went to feed again and they all were waiting to be fed again. Just 2 or 3 are shy yet. I'll see what happens tonight.
*Update*
Last night the discus also came to the front of the tank to be fed.
However, when I started to do a water change, off in the corner they were and frightened. I just ignored them. I also removed the towel totally. This morning went to feed again and they all were waiting to be fed again. Just 2 or 3 are shy yet. I'll see what happens tonight.
Dave,
How did you do it? Last night when I got home, took the beefheart out of the freezer and went to the bedroom to feed my discus. All were waiting for food near the top however still a little uncertain especially 2 or 3 that dont even come near the front. An hour later I did a water change and the discus were again terrified, dashing around, sandwiched in the corner. I ignored them, vaccuming the tank, scubbing the sides, filling the tank. Around 10pm, I fed them again. They were not too bad but very uncertain. This morning at feeding time, they were not waiting near the top but near the bottom but when the food hit the water, they started after it. Funny though, I stretched out my arm to grab something 2' away and, bam, they were dashing around, sandwiched in the corner again. > Sigh! I'll see how the weekend goes and hopefully they will get use to me.
How did you do it? Last night when I got home, took the beefheart out of the freezer and went to the bedroom to feed my discus. All were waiting for food near the top however still a little uncertain especially 2 or 3 that dont even come near the front. An hour later I did a water change and the discus were again terrified, dashing around, sandwiched in the corner. I ignored them, vaccuming the tank, scubbing the sides, filling the tank. Around 10pm, I fed them again. They were not too bad but very uncertain. This morning at feeding time, they were not waiting near the top but near the bottom but when the food hit the water, they started after it. Funny though, I stretched out my arm to grab something 2' away and, bam, they were dashing around, sandwiched in the corner again. >
Sigh! I'll see how the weekend goes and hopefully they will get use to me.There can be other factors at play. My water is crystal clear at all times. That indicates to me that my sponge filter is doing its job. I've found in some tanks that the water gets a little cloudy so I add another sponge or clean the existing ones. My water has a pH of about 7.5, conductivity of about 245ms. I have the temp at 90ºF. I don't wipe the glass daily, they really do freak out when I do that. I only clean the glass about once a week, sometimes less often. Usually I clean it when there's a buildup of algae. But I'm not suggesting that you don't clean yours, just saying that a hand wiping every surface of the tank is a lot more invasive then a siphon hose bopping around for a minute.
When fish act skittish for more than a week my first thought is that there's a problem with the water. My next thought is that the fish are sick. I wouldn't treat them, wouldn't know what to treat them for. But I would increase the temp to 90ºF+ and add about 2 TbSp of salt per 10g. I'd also increase the water changes but if the problem was something left in your water that wouldn't help.
Dave
When fish act skittish for more than a week my first thought is that there's a problem with the water. My next thought is that the fish are sick. I wouldn't treat them, wouldn't know what to treat them for. But I would increase the temp to 90ºF+ and add about 2 TbSp of salt per 10g. I'd also increase the water changes but if the problem was something left in your water that wouldn't help.
Dave
Hmm! I have been usually cleaning/scrubbing the glass if not daily then every 2 days. That was my impression of frequently. Well, at least my glass is squeaky clean and may be the cause of skittish.
At the moment, temp is 90F and I add 1/2 cup of salt to 30Gs. My water is aged 24hours, heated, aerated and treated with Seachem Prime before every 80% water change. They look healthy otherwise, 1 did have 3 whitespots but I think they have disappear. I was medicating the last 5 days with Maracide because of the white spots (until I read the post on Simpy discus). I was thinking of the height of the tank but Hans in Germany mentioned that should not be a problem.
But as you mentioned, maybe there is something in my water that Im not aware of. I should phone the city. Any other suggestions? Thanks!
At the moment, temp is 90F and I add 1/2 cup of salt to 30Gs. My water is aged 24hours, heated, aerated and treated with Seachem Prime before every 80% water change. They look healthy otherwise, 1 did have 3 whitespots but I think they have disappear. I was medicating the last 5 days with Maracide because of the white spots (until I read the post on Simpy discus). I was thinking of the height of the tank but Hans in Germany mentioned that should not be a problem.
But as you mentioned, maybe there is something in my water that Im not aware of. I should phone the city. Any other suggestions? Thanks!
Hey Dave/REd:
Sorry no updates, been busy and there really aren't any to speak of. I agree with Dave about the fact that there is something in my water that i don't know about. Maybe you guys can help rule out anything else. Here is my setup
-45 gal storage can
- 40 gals of H20 is treated w/ Prime, aged, filtered by a fluval 204 and heated to 84 degrees for 24 hrs (give or take an hour)
- four fish are kept in a 55 gal 84 degrees bb tank with an airstone and a fluval 304.
What do you think? i might try and give my water company a call this weekend to see what is in my water.
Thanks for your help.
Another thought. the lighting on the tank is a 110 watt PC light. Is this too bright?
Sorry no updates, been busy and there really aren't any to speak of. I agree with Dave about the fact that there is something in my water that i don't know about. Maybe you guys can help rule out anything else. Here is my setup
-45 gal storage can
- 40 gals of H20 is treated w/ Prime, aged, filtered by a fluval 204 and heated to 84 degrees for 24 hrs (give or take an hour)
- four fish are kept in a 55 gal 84 degrees bb tank with an airstone and a fluval 304.
What do you think? i might try and give my water company a call this weekend to see what is in my water.
Thanks for your help.
Another thought. the lighting on the tank is a 110 watt PC light. Is this too bright?
Four fish will tend to be more skittish. I find the more fish in the tank the happier they are, especially when they're young & especially when they're new to your tank. I try to keep my fish in groups of 8 or more. The more the better. So long as the water is kept clean.
Dave
Dave
Agree with Dave! How big are your discus? However, I do have 2 5" in my 20G and they are perfectly fine. I cant be something in the water either because in my 20G it does not happen. I did phone my city and they said not to worry because they do not increase chlorine/chloramine levels much. How about the light inside the bedroom compared to inside the tank? It is much brighter in the tank than in the bedroom. The bedroom is actually a little on the dark side with only 1 60W bulb. Possibility?
Ok, Dave! I figured it out and man am I pi**ed!
When I spoke with the city water foreman, he mentioned they are putting ammonia and chlorine in the water which forms chloramines. So what that means is that when I use Seachem Prime, it breaks the bond between the chlorine and ammonia. Its not the ammonia or actually it becomes ammonium (nontoxic form of ammonia) that Im worried about, its the nitrites and especailly now that Im doing 70-80% waterchanges, it puts a huge load on my bio. I noticed yesterday that the discus when breathing heavier than normal and tested nitrites right away. Under 0.3ppm and when I did a 90% water change and tested nitrites right after, got a 0.1ppm measurement. This morning, nitrites back up to 0.3ppm. I did a 20% water change, removed some established media from my 90G and placed it in the 30G filter. This is just great but you know what, I kind of knew this was going to happen. Why? Because I was trying to cycle my 10G and when it was complete, I did a 80% water change. Then filled with tapwater, treated for chloramines and got ammonia reading (actually ammonium), then nitrites all over again. Really sucks!
Btw, after I did the 90% water change, half hour later the discus were all happy, breathing normal. I also fed them evening snacke and were not very frigthened. This morning, frightened. Grrrrr! > I wish there was a way to remove chloramines with no side affects. I guess I could setup a filter just for the barrel.
Any suggestions?
When I spoke with the city water foreman, he mentioned they are putting ammonia and chlorine in the water which forms chloramines. So what that means is that when I use Seachem Prime, it breaks the bond between the chlorine and ammonia. Its not the ammonia or actually it becomes ammonium (nontoxic form of ammonia) that Im worried about, its the nitrites and especailly now that Im doing 70-80% waterchanges, it puts a huge load on my bio. I noticed yesterday that the discus when breathing heavier than normal and tested nitrites right away. Under 0.3ppm and when I did a 90% water change and tested nitrites right after, got a 0.1ppm measurement. This morning, nitrites back up to 0.3ppm. I did a 20% water change, removed some established media from my 90G and placed it in the 30G filter. This is just great but you know what, I kind of knew this was going to happen. Why? Because I was trying to cycle my 10G and when it was complete, I did a 80% water change. Then filled with tapwater, treated for chloramines and got ammonia reading (actually ammonium), then nitrites all over again. Really sucks!
Btw, after I did the 90% water change, half hour later the discus were all happy, breathing normal. I also fed them evening snacke and were not very frigthened. This morning, frightened. Grrrrr! >
I wish there was a way to remove chloramines with no side affects. I guess I could setup a filter just for the barrel.Any suggestions?
Prime will detoxify chlorine, chloramine and nitrites. Your test kits may still register the presence of ammonia & nitrite but they should no longer be harmful to the fish. If anything I'd be concerned that the presence of nitrites is an indication that you filter is not capable of the fishload in the tank. How long has the filter been cycled? What fishload was it cycled with or was it used for prior to receiving these new fish? Has it definitely been properly cycled? That's more likely the cause of nitrites in your water then the chloramine in your tap water in my opinion.
Dave
Dave