Why small tanks aren't good.
- Thread starter Avalon
- Start date
Hmm....I guess I'm a little confused here. Rohnds sounds like you're trying to argue...yet you're in agreement with what a lot of people have already said on this thread.
Perhaps the title of the thread is misleading because I dont think anyone has said "its impossible and terrible to keep a 10 gallon tank period". I think the thread is more of a "why bigger tanks are better for newbies".
I think the majority of us have agreed that a 10g tank is a very popular starter tank and many of us have said that it would have been very helpful if someone would have told us in the very beginning that we'd be much better off with a larger tank to start with because of the overall stability of the tank, the wider variety of stocking options and ease of maintenance.
We've also all agreed that a lot of research is needed before jumping into the hobby head on...and the more research the better prepared you are to make decisions on what kind of tank, equipment, fish you want.
Perhaps the title of the thread is misleading because I dont think anyone has said "its impossible and terrible to keep a 10 gallon tank period". I think the thread is more of a "why bigger tanks are better for newbies".
I think the majority of us have agreed that a 10g tank is a very popular starter tank and many of us have said that it would have been very helpful if someone would have told us in the very beginning that we'd be much better off with a larger tank to start with because of the overall stability of the tank, the wider variety of stocking options and ease of maintenance.
We've also all agreed that a lot of research is needed before jumping into the hobby head on...and the more research the better prepared you are to make decisions on what kind of tank, equipment, fish you want.
Well spoken, Froggy... you summed it up. I haven't posted on this thread until now because I agree with both sides. I started with a 29 gallon, did everything I though I was supposed to be doing and my tank still crashed ( ok, lets not anyone head into the "you didn't cycle".. we all know!! 
), and I did overstock too quickly, HOWEVER.... I started with the 29 and did water changes and vacs like I was supposed to, my problem was overfeeding... so it had nothing to do with a bigger tank... I think that different "newbies" make different mistakes, had I gone out and bought a 1,000 gallon tank it still would have crashed.... but I am glad I got the 29 it did give me more stocking options which is why everyone gets involved in this hobby in the first place, but I am trying to set my 10 gallon after learning from my mistakes... which I would have learned no matter what the gallons. So, in short... yes, I agree!!! ( with both)
), and I did overstock too quickly, HOWEVER.... I started with the 29 and did water changes and vacs like I was supposed to, my problem was overfeeding... so it had nothing to do with a bigger tank... I think that different "newbies" make different mistakes, had I gone out and bought a 1,000 gallon tank it still would have crashed.... but I am glad I got the 29 it did give me more stocking options which is why everyone gets involved in this hobby in the first place, but I am trying to set my 10 gallon after learning from my mistakes... which I would have learned no matter what the gallons. So, in short... yes, I agree!!! ( with both)
This thread touches on the very premise of giving advice to newbies. Personally, over the years I have gone out of my way to help newcommers, trying to help them 'skip' a few lessons if possible by using my experience.
But, I agree sometimes people need to learn hard way, do it the wrong way, then come back later and say 'I wish I would have listened'.
Either way, some will learn and continue, others will not and quit. If I say 'start with a 33 gallon' and they go buy a 10 gallon, so what. For a while, a 10 gallon was my largest, then about a month later, I got a 17 gallon, then a month later, I got a 38 gallon, ect, ect, ect... It just cost me a little more because I was constantly upgrading.
Most newbies have NO IDEA what is involved when they first start off. Usually they have no short or long term plans, they are just trying it out. So, without knowing what they might do, I will still suggest someone who seems mildly serious about getting into the hobby start off with a 33 gallon, just so they have the option of trying something new in a few months if they kill everything off or want to try a new variety.
10 Gallons are basically for 2 to 3" adult sized fish. That still gives you a lot of options, but rules out goldfish and most cichlids.
Personally, I don't think the title "Why small tanks aren't good." is really a good title, more like "If I had to do it all over again, I would have started with a bigger tank".
A 33 gallon is a good middle range, not too much water changes (compared to a 75 gallon), not so prone to sudden water issues (line a 10 or smaller), and I find it's much more of a feature tank (if done well) than the narrower tanks.
The basic equipment cost difference from a 10 gallon to a 33 gallon is very little (minus the stand), so tell me where is the harm is suggesting someone start off with a 33 instead of a 10 if it's within the budget?
But, I agree sometimes people need to learn hard way, do it the wrong way, then come back later and say 'I wish I would have listened'.
Either way, some will learn and continue, others will not and quit. If I say 'start with a 33 gallon' and they go buy a 10 gallon, so what. For a while, a 10 gallon was my largest, then about a month later, I got a 17 gallon, then a month later, I got a 38 gallon, ect, ect, ect... It just cost me a little more because I was constantly upgrading.
Most newbies have NO IDEA what is involved when they first start off. Usually they have no short or long term plans, they are just trying it out. So, without knowing what they might do, I will still suggest someone who seems mildly serious about getting into the hobby start off with a 33 gallon, just so they have the option of trying something new in a few months if they kill everything off or want to try a new variety.
10 Gallons are basically for 2 to 3" adult sized fish. That still gives you a lot of options, but rules out goldfish and most cichlids.
Personally, I don't think the title "Why small tanks aren't good." is really a good title, more like "If I had to do it all over again, I would have started with a bigger tank".
A 33 gallon is a good middle range, not too much water changes (compared to a 75 gallon), not so prone to sudden water issues (line a 10 or smaller), and I find it's much more of a feature tank (if done well) than the narrower tanks.
The basic equipment cost difference from a 10 gallon to a 33 gallon is very little (minus the stand), so tell me where is the harm is suggesting someone start off with a 33 instead of a 10 if it's within the budget?
I've started with my 6.5-7GAL tank and i love it so much - i was thinking of replacing it for the new year with perhaps a 10gal (if i moved a few things about), but i really don't see the point. I think small tanks (as long as you don't REALLY overstock) are just as good as bigger tanks, i had limited space and just my tiny little tank alone really brightens up my room, i get plenty of compliments
I think a small tank can brighten up any surface, etc... some people just don't have room for big 155GAL's, etc, and really it doesn't matter. Get what you can afford/got room for - and enjoy your little aquarium
I think a small tank can brighten up any surface, etc... some people just don't have room for big 155GAL's, etc, and really it doesn't matter. Get what you can afford/got room for - and enjoy your little aquarium
This is something I've always been told, especially when I got my tank. I was told not to get anything less than a 30 gallon tank because they're best when you're doing a community tank. Not to bash those of you who have less than a 30, if it's working great, stay with it. What I was told about 10 gallons is that they are hard to maintain and that disease can spread very rapidly in them were as in a larger tank a disease is easier to treat. Beginners should start higher than 10 gallons, less money will be spent on replacing fish that way. Sure it might be alot of money to start with, but in the long run you'll find that 10 gallon tanks will cost you more (for the fish) than bigger tanks.
My ten gallon tank had been the picture of stability and healthy fish for three years. It's now been upgraded to a twenty gallon, and it's doing just as well as ever.
I'm really not sure about disease spreading more rapidly in a smaller tank, but water conditions are certainly a little less stable, as changes take place more rapidly and could potentially shock fish.
Nevertheless, I think a good deal of the idea that small tanks are difficult to manage or maintain, especially for a beginner, is highly overstated. As a musician I liken it to the notion that a quality instrument is a worthwhile investment, but it won't make you a great musician. At the same time, a crappy instrument in the hands of a great musician, will sound pretty darn amazing.
From my own personal experience, and from watching others, I can honestly say that in the hands of an aquarist who doesn't cut corners and who follows the basic guidelines of aquarium keeping (knowing about cycling, water chemistry, carefully choosing the right tank inhabitants, etc.) a ten gallon tank, even a five gallon tank, can be just as successful as a tank ten times its size. It really all comes down to the decisions and the maintenance. And those are things even a complete beginner can manage.
I'm really not sure about disease spreading more rapidly in a smaller tank, but water conditions are certainly a little less stable, as changes take place more rapidly and could potentially shock fish.
Nevertheless, I think a good deal of the idea that small tanks are difficult to manage or maintain, especially for a beginner, is highly overstated. As a musician I liken it to the notion that a quality instrument is a worthwhile investment, but it won't make you a great musician. At the same time, a crappy instrument in the hands of a great musician, will sound pretty darn amazing.
From my own personal experience, and from watching others, I can honestly say that in the hands of an aquarist who doesn't cut corners and who follows the basic guidelines of aquarium keeping (knowing about cycling, water chemistry, carefully choosing the right tank inhabitants, etc.) a ten gallon tank, even a five gallon tank, can be just as successful as a tank ten times its size. It really all comes down to the decisions and the maintenance. And those are things even a complete beginner can manage.
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My brother inherited a 10 gallon from me and he is upgrading to a 20 gallon tall, not because of problems with his tank but because he would like to get a few more fish. We stopped at a lfs yesterday that was moving and had all of their tanks on sale and picked up a 20tall with filter and hood for $25. We picked the tall because it would still fit on the stand that he has now, it's just taller than the ten.
Anyways, he seems to have defied all odds when it comes to his ten gallon tank. In it he has a pair of flame dwarf gouramis, a male and female betta, a few guppies and an oto. The gourami's do not fight at all amongst themselves or with the bettas. The bettas are normally side by side and don't bother the guppies at all. He originally started with a male and female guppy and they had babies but only two survived. It has lots of fake plants and caves to hide in. He does regular water changes and his tank looks awesome, other than the fact that it is all bright colors like neon pink, yellow, green and blue (I like the natural look). He's fortunate to have never had any problems with this tank but some people aren't so lucky.
I think fishkeeping is a lot like poker sometimes, it's basically the luck of the draw. I had a 5 gallon when I was little that my dad put a minnow into one day after we went fishing. All of my fish died including the minnow and I could never keep any fish alive in that tank, even after I scrubbed and scrubbed. My current 5 gallon is doing great. Some people can keep a small tank with great success, others have to work hard to do so. Some bettas would attack a gourami in a 10 gallon, my brother hasn't had any problems. There are a lot of different factors that could make or break a tank, but I would never say that small tanks aren't good.
Anyways, he seems to have defied all odds when it comes to his ten gallon tank. In it he has a pair of flame dwarf gouramis, a male and female betta, a few guppies and an oto. The gourami's do not fight at all amongst themselves or with the bettas. The bettas are normally side by side and don't bother the guppies at all. He originally started with a male and female guppy and they had babies but only two survived. It has lots of fake plants and caves to hide in. He does regular water changes and his tank looks awesome, other than the fact that it is all bright colors like neon pink, yellow, green and blue (I like the natural look). He's fortunate to have never had any problems with this tank but some people aren't so lucky.
I think fishkeeping is a lot like poker sometimes, it's basically the luck of the draw. I had a 5 gallon when I was little that my dad put a minnow into one day after we went fishing. All of my fish died including the minnow and I could never keep any fish alive in that tank, even after I scrubbed and scrubbed. My current 5 gallon is doing great. Some people can keep a small tank with great success, others have to work hard to do so. Some bettas would attack a gourami in a 10 gallon, my brother hasn't had any problems. There are a lot of different factors that could make or break a tank, but I would never say that small tanks aren't good.
Avalon,
While I agree with everything you stated in your post, I do think that small tanks can be good. Its a great way to learn and understand what you should and shouldn't do in an aquarium.
My son (who is now 5) received a 20-gallon tank on his 4th birthday. So I read the instructions that came with the tank and set it up. Later I came to find out that even though I followed the directions I still had no clue.
However, I was smart enough to realize that I didn't know what I was doing and after a Google search found MFT. The members here were (and still are) great. They helped me through my ordeal and my tank has not had any problems in over a year.
I am now upgrading to a 55-gallon and I've asked many questions on the best way to upgrade and add plants. I have spent weeks researching equipment, fish size, and fish compatibility and I should be ready to go in a week or two. I honestly don't think I would have been successful with a larger tank in the beginning and having the 20 gallon has made me appreciate aquariums and understand the interdependencies of the filters, gravel, plants, and fish.
As stated many times, most people don't do any research before putting up a tank. They don't have friends who have done it and they don't research anything on the internet before they buy their fish. Hell, I'm even battling the wife right now. She wants to add certain fish to the new tank and I'm telling her that its not a good idea. Her reply is "Oh, that's bull****".
I've also found out that these people don't care. I was at a relative's house who had 3 good size goldfish in a 2 gallon tank, they could barely move. I asked about water parameters and water changes and she just looked at me like I was speaking a forgien language. I then tried to explain to her how the fish need a bigger tank and how you need to change the water. I didn't even get into water testing. She just looked at me and said "Oh, they're fine." I think these folks are better off with a small tank until they can get it right or give up. I did give her a 20-gallon tank so the fish would have more room, but I can't get her to see the light.
Thanks for listening..........
While I agree with everything you stated in your post, I do think that small tanks can be good. Its a great way to learn and understand what you should and shouldn't do in an aquarium.
My son (who is now 5) received a 20-gallon tank on his 4th birthday. So I read the instructions that came with the tank and set it up. Later I came to find out that even though I followed the directions I still had no clue.
However, I was smart enough to realize that I didn't know what I was doing and after a Google search found MFT. The members here were (and still are) great. They helped me through my ordeal and my tank has not had any problems in over a year.
I am now upgrading to a 55-gallon and I've asked many questions on the best way to upgrade and add plants. I have spent weeks researching equipment, fish size, and fish compatibility and I should be ready to go in a week or two. I honestly don't think I would have been successful with a larger tank in the beginning and having the 20 gallon has made me appreciate aquariums and understand the interdependencies of the filters, gravel, plants, and fish.
As stated many times, most people don't do any research before putting up a tank. They don't have friends who have done it and they don't research anything on the internet before they buy their fish. Hell, I'm even battling the wife right now. She wants to add certain fish to the new tank and I'm telling her that its not a good idea. Her reply is "Oh, that's bull****".
I've also found out that these people don't care. I was at a relative's house who had 3 good size goldfish in a 2 gallon tank, they could barely move. I asked about water parameters and water changes and she just looked at me like I was speaking a forgien language. I then tried to explain to her how the fish need a bigger tank and how you need to change the water. I didn't even get into water testing. She just looked at me and said "Oh, they're fine." I think these folks are better off with a small tank until they can get it right or give up. I did give her a 20-gallon tank so the fish would have more room, but I can't get her to see the light.
Thanks for listening..........
Good thread, despite the bickering
I don't know anything yet about how tough the maintenance is for any size tank, as I'm still in fishless stages of mine.. but my knowledge of chemistry makes me agree that a lower volume of water is easier to foul up quicker. I would imagine that even a mini-cycle due to introducing new fish would be more pronounced, and thus could be more trouble for people who don't quite understand the cycle idea, or who have fish that are not particularly hardy (which may be the case during the learning curve). Of course I guess this could work in the favour of someone learning the hobby -- the more dramatic the changes, the more quickly one is forced to learn! But I happen to believe that learning the hard way is sometimes more discouraging than it's worth, and so I understand why 10G tanks are not recommended for total newbies.
On the other hand, I am personally setting up a 29G right now, and it "feels" like a big job psychologically, and I would imagine some newbs would feel uneasy taking on something that "feels" even this big. Of course if a job doesn't "feel" big enough, it might get neglected -- perhaps that's what happened to my betta bowl as a kid, and what's happening with that lady and her three goldfish crammed in the 2 gallon tank.
To strike a good balance between chemistry (which says "go big for stability!") and psychology (which says "you can only handle what you think you can handle!") I would recommend that a nervous-newbie should probably start with 20G or 29G .. depending on space available, money, etc.
If I knew someone who is considering getting into the hobby via a 10G, I would suggest that they consider starting larger, and give them the two big reasons: (1) more forgiving to any changes, and (2) more flexibility with the number and type of fish. #1 makes bigger sound more manageable, and #2 makes bigger sound more fun.
On the other hand, if I knew someone who was considering getting into the hobby via a 55G or larger (say, after reading that "bigger is better"), I would be forced to ask them if they were prepared for all the tasks involved. Does this person realize that aquariums require weekly water changes? scrubbing of algae off the walls? gravel vacuuming? filtration? aeration? The job does get bigger for bigger tanks, and I wouldn't want to watch a big investment go to waste because it turns into a chore rather than a relaxing pastime.
Of course, adequate research can prepare anyone for anything, big tank or small tank, but I would recommend a medium-small tank to anyone interested in getting into the hobby. If the newbie in question provides good enough reason(s) to divert from the recommendation, then at least I will have said my two cents, and of course it's their choice what they do with their time and money. If all else fails, I am willing to buy their too-small or too-large tank off of them if they decide to give up!
I don't know anything yet about how tough the maintenance is for any size tank, as I'm still in fishless stages of mine.. but my knowledge of chemistry makes me agree that a lower volume of water is easier to foul up quicker. I would imagine that even a mini-cycle due to introducing new fish would be more pronounced, and thus could be more trouble for people who don't quite understand the cycle idea, or who have fish that are not particularly hardy (which may be the case during the learning curve). Of course I guess this could work in the favour of someone learning the hobby -- the more dramatic the changes, the more quickly one is forced to learn!
But I happen to believe that learning the hard way is sometimes more discouraging than it's worth, and so I understand why 10G tanks are not recommended for total newbies.On the other hand, I am personally setting up a 29G right now, and it "feels" like a big job psychologically, and I would imagine some newbs would feel uneasy taking on something that "feels" even this big. Of course if a job doesn't "feel" big enough, it might get neglected -- perhaps that's what happened to my betta bowl as a kid, and what's happening with that lady and her three goldfish crammed in the 2 gallon tank.
To strike a good balance between chemistry (which says "go big for stability!") and psychology (which says "you can only handle what you think you can handle!") I would recommend that a nervous-newbie should probably start with 20G or 29G .. depending on space available, money, etc.
If I knew someone who is considering getting into the hobby via a 10G, I would suggest that they consider starting larger, and give them the two big reasons: (1) more forgiving to any changes, and (2) more flexibility with the number and type of fish. #1 makes bigger sound more manageable, and #2 makes bigger sound more fun.
On the other hand, if I knew someone who was considering getting into the hobby via a 55G or larger (say, after reading that "bigger is better"), I would be forced to ask them if they were prepared for all the tasks involved. Does this person realize that aquariums require weekly water changes? scrubbing of algae off the walls? gravel vacuuming? filtration? aeration? The job does get bigger for bigger tanks, and I wouldn't want to watch a big investment go to waste because it turns into a chore rather than a relaxing pastime.
Of course, adequate research can prepare anyone for anything, big tank or small tank, but I would recommend a medium-small tank to anyone interested in getting into the hobby. If the newbie in question provides good enough reason(s) to divert from the recommendation, then at least I will have said my two cents, and of course it's their choice what they do with their time and money. If all else fails, I am willing to buy their too-small or too-large tank off of them if they decide to give up!
I’ve always had 2.5 to 10 gallon tanks (mostly due to budget and/or landlord restraints) and aside from the usual beginner problems when I first started that everyone has, I’ve had no major problems. The fish do well, and so do the plants—though admittedly I’m fairly new to the more advanced aquascaping techniques so I’m still learning. But I love it, and have had no major problems, and know that if I keep hanging around this place and spending more time working on it I’ll get where I want to be.
Aside from my disasterous first attempt at keeping a goldfish in a 2.5 gallon, I've had no major problems either with my 2 small tanks. They may be more work and have fewer stocking options, but I don't mind. I find water changes, vaccuuming the gravel, cleaning off algae, testing the water perameters, all to be a rather enjoyable part of owning a fish tank. And since the tanks are small, it doesn't take long at all to do a 20% water change, though you do have to do them often. And I like the smaller fish. Whiteclouds are so much fun to watch and bettas are beautiful. I've never had a big tank and I'm sure they are easier, but I still have to support the little tanks.
