Sick Extremly Sick Goldfish Help Please...

[Papillon]

SICK EXTREMELY SICK GOLDFISH HELP PLEASE.............

Hi,
I am a new aquarist with a major problem!! I have just bought a 38 gallon freshwater tank. It's still cycling I bought 3 fancy goldfish, one small Oranda died yesterday, he had flipover and ich. My other two now have BAD cases of Hemorrhagic Septicaemia and a moderate case of ich and fin rot!!!

I went to a very reputable fish store here in NJ called absolutely fish, I put in my plants, a live culture of bacteria and bio-spira to jump start the cycle. 24hrs later I put in the fish, I guess now that was a HUGE mistake. A couple of days later they were sluggish, upon calling the fish store they told me NOT to medicate etc etc, because it would ruin my cycle... Watching the fish die is torturous, especially my little oranda (ping pong ball look alike with fins!!!)

So yesterday, I removed the other two fish, into a 3 gallon tank (way way too small I know, but it's the only empty tank I have, my 12 gallon is occupied with my thriving betta) I medicated with Maracyn II and parasite clear by fungus... I have the bio wheel in there but no filter cartridge...

I plan to change one to two gallons of water a day so that there is enough oxygen, and the water quality is healthier...

In the 38 gallon I am continuing to cycle it, w/out water changes, I then added an all natural completely organic ich cure called Prevent Ich made by Kordon.. I am supposed to put this in the tank daily for a week according to the directions.

My question is/are am I doing the right thing with the two remaining orandas?

Do I vacuum my tank remove gravel etc etc, and start the cycle all over again to get rid of any disease?

How long can my fish stay in the 3 gallon? I want them out of there ASAP!!

By the way, my nitrites were at .25, ammonia 2.0 - 3.0 Nitrates 5.0

What do you think? Please help because I am despairing and I think the guys at the fish store are more interested in the cycle, than my poor fish...

I look forward to hearing from you.
Many thanks,
Marie
*thumbsdow

 

[Papillon]

Anyone??? Got any thoughts, advice etc as to what more I can do.... When the tank is cycled do I put them back in? If so how do I medicate w/out killing the beneficial bacteria.... HELP!

Marie

 

[Iggy]

Hi Marie, long time since you posted - welcome back. Glad to hear you got a nice big tank! Sorry about your goldfish troubles.

That many symptoms in such a short period of time makes me wonder about the ammonia levels being over 2.5.

If the 3gal has an airstone, it should be fine for a few weeks (how big are these fish?), however I would only do water changes every 3 or more days, and no more than 30% each time. You need to let the medication do its job, and constantly replacing water will only dilute the meds and prolong the treatment. The water should not get that dirty in less than a week.

As far as the 38gal tank, I would set the heater to 84F and keep adding the medications for the full week. Ick is always present in tanks (all fish carry it), so its a matter of reducing the parasites and boosting the fish immune system. The cycle bacteria will need some food, so don't clean it out completely, the fish waste in the water will provide some ammonia for a while until you can return the fish.

I would not suggest you return your fish till your ammonia level drops to 0ppm and nitrites below .25
(See http://www.goldfishinfo.com/water.htm#ammonia - good site for goldfish care)

Keep us posted, good luck Marie!

 

[Papillon]

Those were the readings for the water.... I medicate every day in the 3 gallon after the daily water changes. Hence there is a constant stream of medication in the tank.. I don't have a heater for the 38 gallon as goldfish like it cool 68/72 and the water temp is at 76/78 room temp...

 

[Iggy]

Marie, if you have a table-lamp with a 60w+ bulb, shine it on the tank to get the temperature up above 84F. It will speed up the Ick incubation time and clear your tank a lot faster.

Did I misread the "By the way, my nitrites were at .25, ammonia 2.0 - 3.0 Nitrates 5.0" is that the 38gal or the 3gal? Those levels are pretty high and are likely the cause of the problems.

What size are the fancy goldfish, are they juvies are young adults?

The 3gal tank water changes that frequently and keeping the meds full strength might do more harm then good if the fish are getting constantly disturbed and the medication builds-up. The 4 fish I have managed to recover from Ick and Fungus did just as good when I did a 3 day water change than when I did it every day.

I don't know much about Hemorrhagic Septicemia, but I did find a link:
http://www.geocities.com/shtinkythefish/diseases/septicemia.htm

 

[Iggy]

Maracyn-Two
"A dosage of 2 tablet per 10 gallons of freshwater for the first day, 1 tablet per 10 gallons for days 2 - 5. Repeat treatment only once if needed. Use of a hospital tank is recommended."

"No water changes, pH, or temperature adjustments necessary if readings are in ideal range"

http://bettalistserv.tripod.com/Meds/Maracyn2.htm

Looks like they slowly reduce the dosage over time.

 

[Papillon]

Hi Iggy,

In the 38 gallon those were the readings...

I just don't want the fish to suffocate in the 3 gallon.. They are about 3 inches long and 2 inches round... They were beautiful pearly and orange with white tails.. Now they look like complete s**t....

I was told by the fish guys not to treat the tank to let the ich die out naturally and let it complete cycling before putting them back in.. I am using the natural ich "fixer"... I just don't what to do when they get back into the big tank, how to continue treating them without killing the bacteria..

I am tempted to start ALL over again from scratch... I have more Bio spira left over and have read the fishless cycle... I would also back the rocks and gravel in a 400 degree oven for 30 minutes...

The plants would be all that's left...

M

 

[Papillon]

I am putting half a tablet in for five days and a third of the fizzy anti parasite stuff for 3 days...

 

[aquatic-store]

Make sure you have some air running in the tank,
I don't think you have Hemorrhagic Septicaemia but instead ammonnia poisoning,
This can cause red streaks and actuallyu BURN the little fish,

I suggest daily 25% -50 % water changes,Make sure you use your Chlorine/ chlorimine remover
Make sure temp is apprx the same
GET THOSE FISH OUT OF THE 3 GAL
Continue with your medication

 

[Iggy]

K, sounds like you are on track with the meds. Can you (or did you) add an airstone to the 3gal, they are bigger than I expected.

Not knowing about Hemorrhagic Septicemia, I have no idea if you should sanitize your 38gal! I would say no, that if the water conditions were fully cycled, this likely would not have happened.

Starting from stratch means a 1-2 month wait till it gets cycled, and the 3gal will definately not do it for that long, so try to get your hands on a 10 or 20 gal - garage sale or bargain finder can be useful for about $10.00 - skip the gravel for now.

 

[Papillon]

Hi Marc,

Yeah I do, they have red blotches all over them etc... Pretty ugly site.... I don't have a choice right now but to leave them in the small tank... I can't medicate them in the big one....

Iggy here are my tank readings right now....

Amonia: 2.0/3.0

Freswater ph: 7.6

Freshwater high range Ph: 7.8

Nitrates: 0

Nitrites: 0.25

Not there yet!

 

[Papillon]

sorry amonia: .5/1.0

 

[Iggy]

Put an airstone in the 3gal ASAP, keep up the water changes. A big bucket, drum or pail will work to, heck a kiddie pool in the basement (I have seen it done). Don't worry about cycling the small tank. They need more surface area than a 3gal can support. 231 square inches of surface area per fish (10-20 gallons about).
http://www.goldfishinfo.com/setup1.htm

Anything over 2.0 for ammonia and .25 nitrite is too high Marie, only time and cycling will bring it down. Finish the 38gal tank cycle, don't start over, it will take to long.

After they cycle is done, your 38gal tank will only support the two you have for a while. You may be able to add a 3rd one, but I would wait for a while to see if you need an algea eater first.

My 6 juvies are only 1" big now, and will end up in a 120 gallon outdoor pool.

 

[Iggy]

Thats a better ammonia level, you are closer to finishing the cycle. Just wait till the nitrite levels drop to 0ppm.

 

[Papillon]

Air stone now in 3 gallon!!! Good Lord, I feel like a hospital and an expectant mother all in one!

 

[Iggy]

Good, medicines often reduce the o2 levels in the water, so the stone will help supplement it a bit.

Do your best to get a bigger 'container' for them. Again, surface area is the critical factor.

Keep us posted on how they are doing!

 

[Papillon]

I don't have a car and there are no pet stores around me, just to get the tank, so I shop a lot online and so far I haven't found anything. So at the moment I will continue doing water changes etc, and put them back in the tank when it has completed it's cycle and hope for the best... It's the only thing I can do...

Will the tail fins grow back? I have MELAFIX can I put that in the big tank when they are back in? and will if affect the bacteria if I do?

M

 

[Iggy]

Melafix will not adversely affect your bio-filtration. I imagine the fins should grow back (like skin does).

How are the Orandas doing today? Are they moving around (as much as they can in a 3gal)?

 

[Papillon]

Yes my big headed one is doing better, the other fantail, well,, I don't know really, changed 40% of the water this morning, and must go feed them now, as they haven't eaten since last night....

 

[Iggy]

Thats a good sign