My planned set up and a question.

[fishboy]

Blue turq,
Think of it this way. You have this large tank.. say 55 gallon, and you have these 6 small 1" discus. You have a TON of dead space, and a fairly small school for that size of tank. These fish are gonna be extremely skittish and stressed because of the immense space they have vs their actual body proportion. Finding food will be hard

Now if you'd have say 3/4 of the tank blocked off by a divider that would be a different story. It is all about dead space... too much dead space.. and your fish are going to be skittish.

By the way... Good post C-man


HTH
Daniel

 

[blueturq]

mmhmm

I've done it before on more than one occassion and believe me they didn't have a hard time finding food! They established a pecking order(which is normal), grew up happily and i eventually gave 4 back to the lfs only keeping the two i felt were the nicest looking.

And you talk about "dead space"? Well let me tell you something.

One time I had 4 juveniles and put them in my 55 gal. But there wasn't really any "dead space" no sir! It was a community tank and i added the discus, and THAT my friend was A BAD MOVE!!!, because even as they grew they were VERY skittish, so i did like usual and kept two(the two i currently have) and they are still pretty shy(almost nocturnal)

Also fishboy think about what your saying.

Your throwing young discus into a tank with other fish swimming around. Which alot of times makes it harder for the discus to adjust.

Where as if you gave them a tank on their own, they can pace themselves, and not have any other fish in thier way. ESPECIALLY at feeding time!(since discus don't really compete for food)

This is all based on my exprience, so you can't shoot it down!!!

 

[fishboy]

Aye.. Ok.. I was trying to be nice. Now you have me a little mad.

Blue turq. I'd really like to see your discus. Feel free to post pictures. I'd like to see them. Enlighten me.

Fish of that size.. really not a good idea to have them in that large of a tank.. experienced it myself.. put 4 small ones in a 55.. next day all cowering in the corner. Took em out and stuck them in a 29. I learned my lesson.

The reason your discus are so skittish now is because you raised them in a community tank! Most discus will not do that well in a community tank. Discus should really be left to themselves until adults,especially young fish. Why you'd get rid of the other adults is a mystery to me. I mean, if they were skittish to begin with why would you basically destroy the school. Even adult fish like to school somewhat. BB is the way to go.

I do not understand why you think i was talking about putting them in a tank "with other fish swimming around." Discus are schoolers. They like to be with their own kind. The more the better. If there are too few fish in a large tank they will not be that happy. Trying to raise discus with community fish is a bad idea too.

Discus don't really compete for food?! Yeah rigghhhhttt. I've had some come close to taking my hand off at feeding time. They do feed.. and very aggressively if kept in the right conditions.


Daniel

 

[blueturq]

The reason your discus are so skittish now is because you raised them in a community tank! Most discus will not do that well in a community tank

Oh but according to you, they feel insecure if it's just them by themselves, because of dead space!!!, now your saying that it's not good to have them in a community tank(not much dead space) your still harping on me!!

Discus don't really compete for food?! Yeah rigghhhhttt. I've had some come close to taking my hand off at feeding time. They do feed.. and very aggressively if kept in the right conditions.

Oh, so now your saying I don't have the right conditions now? I'll have you now that i just checked my ph about five minutes ago and it read 6.2!

 

[fishboy]

Blue turq. I keep my discus by themselves. In barebottom tanks, until full grown. If you keep discus by THEMSELVES, which is really the best way, in large groups(young fish) they do fine. However if you keep them by themselves in small groups with small (under2") in a large aquarium with JUST discus they will suffer.

Also.. discus do not need softwater anymore. It is a myth of the past. I know because i keep mine in 8+ ph(my tap) and somehow they do great... hmm even spawn.. weird.. i guess its just me. Even big time breeders do not bother with low ph's anymore.

I also never implied you had the wrong conditions. Mine just seem to LOVE to eat when i have them, maybe mine are in good conditions?


Discus only need soft water when breeding, or else the eggs will not hatch. Man.. stop acting like you know something please!


-Daniel

 

[blueturq]

Discus only need soft water when breeding, or else the eggs will not hatch. Man.. stop acting like you know something please!

YOU are telling me to stop acting like I know something??

Listen buddy, i've had discus lay eggs in water that was peat filtered with a ph of 6.0-6.2 and it suited them just fine!!! So don't tell me that I don't know anything!!

People are making you out to be some god because your discus bred!*laughingc

Well, newsflash so has Jack Wattley's discus, so has Han's discus, so has Cary Strong's discus!!

 

[fishboy]

My God! I never said that it was BAD for them or anything. Its just that for keeping discus, you do NOT need 6.0 water! I keep mine in 8 and they are fine. Mine breed in RO which is around 6.5 and they are fine.

Yes i am a god.. worship me. Hah yeah right. I bet everyone treats me like a god too. I know i have an overinflated ego but come on..you should talk..

But now i'm getting into childish arguing... sad..

Sorry for whoevers thread we basically hijacked.

Daniel

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Daniel man, its not worth your time. It really isn't. He can't accept he is wrong........ever.

He isn't god....just mature. And i respect him for breeding his discus, takes time and energy on his part. And from what is saw cary say to him "Thank You My young breeder Friend" Sounds like Fishboy gets some respect.

Nothing wrong with 6.0 water.....but it sure isn't needed. Get with the 21st century. You are stuck in the 1970/1980's dude. Discus are some of the most adaptive to pH changes.....jack Wattley said it himself.

 

[blueturq]

And from what is saw cary say to him "Thank You My young breeder Friend" Sounds like Fishboy gets some respect.

Well what do you expect him to say??!!

Discus are some of the most adaptive to pH changes.....jack Wattley said it himself.

I'm not saying that they aren't!

But you know damn well that if you go the amazon you aren't gonna have a ph of 8.0 in there!

 

[Cichlid-Man]

And you know none of us here are keeping wild fish.

 

[1979camaro]

smile

 

[blueturq]

Yep camaro i am smiling, because i just got a reply back from Gabriel(the guy who is running Jack Wattley's hatchery) and i asked him what ph he keeps his discus in and he said:

"Breeders 5.5, all others 6.5-6.8"

So now, I have a question for the wannabe's(yeah, you know who you are)

Are the discus not nice looking, healthy and in good shape??

Yeah I rest my case!

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Sorry to take your thread man....can't wait to see your setup and good luck.

Where has wattley discus gone? Havn't heard lately......oh thats right because most people don't buy from him anymore. There are other breeders (who keep 7.0+ pH water) out there that have much nicer fish than gabe. Wattley's hatchery has been left in the dust by the new American breeders and Singapore breeders.........his hatchery is WAY behind. His fish only max out at 5-6" where as Singapore fish and some of the new American's max out at 7-8". His fish have a lot of peppering where the other breeder's fish are clean. He doesn't have as good of a shape as the other breeders. He is way behind. Gabe also continues practices Jack started in the 70s-80s. Jack started with pH that low and gabe continues it when its not needed. Now i'm not bashing jack because he indeed started this great part of the hobby....but his hatchery is not up with the others.

Jack and Gabe just can't make them like the boys over in Singapore. The coloring is unbelieveable and the shape is awesome. Call me when you find some like this coming out of Florida (Jack's place) or even on his website. He used to be the top breeder yes, but USED to be. I've seen some very impressive cobalts come out of his hatchery, but i've seen so many "others" come too.

You just don't find them like that in Wattley's hatchery. Again, not bashing Jack (because he made this part of the hobby what it is) or Gabe.....but they are behind in quality.

I guess i should pay Gabe/Jack a visit when i head down to Miami this November so i can really judge his fish.

 

[fishboy]

Originally posted by blueturq


So now, I have a question for the wannabe's(yeah, you know who you are)



Yeah I rest my case!

Ouch. That stung.


Blue turq. Seriously just drop it. You are making yourself look worse and worse everytime you post. Discus do not need 6.5 water anymore... it is a widely accepted fact. How do all these other breeders do it then with higher water? Magic?

Daniel

 

[squidney101]

Wow, I hope everyone has made their point. You have your own experiences and oppinions already out there, so there is no need to argue continually.
Anyways I just had to get that out. I know that I dont have any experience keeping discus, but I want to do something that I will really like.
My set up has not started as planned Now I am going to get a 75 gallon (because I couldent find a hundred gallon used or new). I am planning on four discus, and when they are grown adding about 60 small fish and 15 medium fish, then making it a planted setup.With this high bio load 50% water changes twice a week. Should everything be fine?

 

[fishboy]

You might want to make the other fish numbers go down, as it is kind of pushing it. I would go for maybe 30-40 smallish fish and try maybe 5-10 medium fish. Other than that sounds great.

Good luck!

Daniel

 

[squidney101]

Thanx for the stocking reconmendation. Its so hard to cut back, but something will have to be done I guess. If I do cut back, is a 50% water change twice a week too much or too little or just right?

 

[Cichlid-Man]

I think that will be fine. To tell you the truth i only do 1 W/C a week (50-75%) in my 55gal planted. Its VERY hard to cut back....but just wait until you buy your first discus.......whoa O_O. hehe

 

[wayne]

Looking at this thread.
Point 1. Don't start bashing Wattley discus without some better experience yourself. I can find arguments on his treatment of other fish than discus, but he does know his discus.
Point 2. What's the point of posting some extremely 'unusual' photos to prove Wattleys bad. Do you honestly think if you buy those fish that's what you'll get in your tank? Some of those fish are genuine, some I am suspicious of
Point 3 - but yes Malaysian breeders do produce some damn good fish. They produce them the same way as anyone else does.
Point 4 - pH. 'I hear they breed them at this, i hear they breed them at the other'. Whenever I've talked to discus breeders, and I've been to a discus farm in Malaysia they start the breeding at a low pH, kH, as the fry grow they take the kH, pH goes with it. I don't believe most discus need low pH water to live though, though I suspect they might do better. It's third behind temp and cleanliness.

I don't want to start arguing with people in this thread about size of tanks, group size and size of fish and whether they can do well in communities. It's common knowledge they do better when small in big groups - the best I've seen were about 40 or 50 in a 5 foot tank with continual water flow/replacement. Buying 4 and sticking them into a 55 is not ideal.
Communities is a personal choice.

 

[blueturq]

Amen to that Wayne! *thumbsups *celebrate