Help on Otocinlus ID...?

[Newman]

Hey, i have 6 otocinclus vittatus sold to me by an lfs, but among them i had a 7th one that doesnt look anything like the vittatus.

The otos i have are normally a deep olive color (maybe not vittatus after all?) and the different oto has a more clear tan color to him...

can someone help ID it? the first oto is the vittatus female and in the second photo the oto in question is the one on the left, compared to that same vittatus female on the right... Is it an otocinlus hoppei?

 

[ayrtoninst]

No, they are not Vittatus, more like Otocinclus sp(1).

Your other Oto may well be a Hoppei, I'm not 100% sure though

 

[Newman]

lol yea i was doubting vittatus. Sp.1? lemme see what those are...
Yea the ones in my 40 gal look exactly like that.

 

[bassbonediva]

Wait, I'm confused. Two of my otos are that kind of tannish color and one is the deep olive. I got all three out of the same tank at Petsmart. Confused!!!

 

[OrangeCones]

I've seen three different species of Oto coming out of the same huge bag from the wholesaler when the LFS gets in stock. And they then dumped them into the tank with CAE since 'they are all algae eaters and are pretty much the same' *rolls eyes*

 

[Newman]

ROFL, so true xD

All my otos were purchased from the same tank. the store had at least 4 diff species of oto in that tank, including the "Giant otos" which looked pretty gross.

 

[bassbonediva]

Oh, nice! So I'm not going crazy! I probably should have realized there were so many different species of otos, I just didn't think they'd all get dumped into the same tank. Then again, this is Petsmart we're talking about, so I shouldn't be surprised. My LFS hadn't ever even HEARD of otos until I showed them a pic of mine.

 

[Newman]

The pet shops simply dont care to create species tank, cuz in most cases its not possible for so many species that they carry. they want to save room. the LFS im was talking about is 100X better than petsmart or petco. its a family store dedicated to fish and live aquatic plants, yet they still pack diff spcies of otos in the same tank. finantial reasons??...

 

[bassbonediva]

Yeah, financial reasons could be it. IDK. The two LFS in my area aren't actually FISH stores, but PET stores. One of them has a few ten gallon tanks completely overcrowded with guppies, mollies and plecos (they carry about thirty small plecos at any given time), as well as a few tiny pint-sized bowls with double-tail bettas in them. The other one has more tanks and a better set-up, but most of their fish don't seem in particularly great health (saw a Jack Dempsey with huge amounts of what I'm pretty sure was ich in with another Jack Dempsey that looked relatively healthy, but they were a good foot long and both in a 20gal tank with a 14in pleco). They also have saltwater tanks that aren't the prettiest sight in the world. I've only bought two fish from either store (a pleco from the first store that I returned within a month due to several issues) and a black female betta from the second store who lasted quite a while and was one of my favorites...until I tried to breed her (without knowing that black females are sterile) and then she developed a swim bladder infection and died.

 

[Newman]

That is very unfortunate Im sorry for hat loss. are all black females really sterile? how do people get lines of pure black bettas then?

 

[OrangeCones]

how do people get lines of pure black bettas then?

Breed a black male to any color female. The black (Melano) is recessive, so any offspring will show another color. Take a female from that breeding, which carries the receive black gene and breed her back to a black male. You have a chance of black offspring now. From what I've read, the female from this breeding that shows the Melano gene (and looks black) will be sterile.

What does this have to do with IDing Otos? HAHAHAHA!!

 

[Newman]

Yea, i know right ?

But thank you for that info. it sounds like the lyretail situation with the swordtails

 

[bassbonediva]

Thanks, OrangeCones. I was thinking something along those lines and was going to type it, but my computer froze.

I showed my son some black mollies in Petsmart yesterday (he'd only seen pics up to then) and he's ALL excited now that that's what is going into the tank.

 

[Doomhed]

Hoppei for sure.

they can be cross bred with the others you have, but the resulting fry are sterile.

 

[Newman]

yea im fairly sure now that its hoppei. It has a really short snout, much shorter than any other oto species i've ever seen. plus that tail marking...thanks for confirmation everyone!

 

[OrangeCones]

Hoppei for sure.

they can be cross bred with the others you have, but the resulting fry are sterile.

Where did you learn this information?

 

[Newman]

diff species that succesfully interbreed produce sterile "mules" basic biology class info...
not sure if we wanna waste time and breed the hoppei with something else just to prove dooms point...i sure dont lol. ill take the "mule" rule for granted.
Plus who sayd hoppei will want to breed with another oto specie? though my hoppei sure is friendly with that oto sp.1 in my 10 gal...

 

[OrangeCones]

diff species that succesfully interbreed produce sterile "mules" basic biology class info...
not sure if we wanna waste time and breed the hoppei with something else just to prove dooms point...i sure dont lol. ill take the "mule" rule for granted.
Plus who sayd hoppei will want to breed with another oto specie? though my hoppei sure is friendly with that oto sp.1 in my 10 gal...

Not all mules are sterile, especially if the offspring is female.

Since neither of the otos you have are bred commercially (or any oto species to my knowledge), I wanted to learn where the information came from. I like otos and want to know more about their breeding.

 

[Newman]

true but very rarely will you get a fertile female mule...same with otos i guess. Generally though the definition of diff species is two populations that either are so different that they will not interbreed or can interbreed with limited offspring being able to survive, and all being sterile. What i dont get is why would offspring of two diff species of oto would be fertile? Not tryin to argue, askin a question....
and orange, do you want to breed otos on a mass scale? you think you could make some money out of it ? im just curious. it would be interesting if you did.

 

[OrangeCones]

true but very rarely will you get a fertile female mule...same with otos i guess. Generally though the definition of diff species is two populations that either are so different that they will not interbreed or can interbreed with limited offspring being able to survive, and all being sterile. What i dont get is why would offspring of two diff species of oto would be fertile? Not tryin to argue, askin a question....

While it is true that the 'official' definiation of species is that they produce fertile offspring, closely related species often interbreed and do produce fertile offspring. Perhaps they are not truely different species, but a sub-species then? With what I've read on scientific fish websites (not hobby fish forums), interbreeding is common in the wild, but most often occurs when there is limited populations of each species. Sorta like the male can't find his OWN kind, so he will 'settle' for a female of another, and vice versa. I don't know, which is why I was asking Doomhed where the information was obtained. I want to learn more.

and orange, do you want to breed otos on a mass scale? you think you could make some money out of it ? im just curious. it would be interesting if you did.

Not on a mass scale, but I'm dedicating a tank to them as soon as I upgrade the lighting on it.

I keep 3 non-oto types of fish and all have bred for me with the young also breeding, and I've sold the offspring and grand-offspring (? - if that is a word). Just recently, one of my species of otos spawned and I have about 5 or 6 fry (hard to find them in a plant filled tank). I don't know if the other species have spawned or not since they are in a tank with Chili Rasbora that have 10day old fry, so I don't want to disturb the tank right now. They could have, since the tank is a massive jungle of plants. I know there were 5 in there....we'll see someday

If any of the oto species DO interbreed, then I want to keep them seperated. If they don't, then I'll throw all three types in the same tank and they can all enjoy the tank to themselves.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack