10g nano--planning!

[anthoeny]

Hello, I'm planning a 10 gallon nano saltwater tank setup.
I know it would be better to start with bigger and everything, but I think I'm up to the challenge of a nano.

I've done my research over the past little while about keeping saltwater aquaria, nanos in partic, but still any clarification, tips, suggestions, experiences, <i>anything</i> would be helpful before I get started buying things!


Okay.... so I going for a 10 gallon setup
(*BTW, any equip/supply suggestions preferably made my Hagen and co, cuz that's the easiest to get a hold of around here and I'm not really into the whole maling thing lol)
Heater-- 100w Tronic
Aquaclear MINI (heard it could help with sponge/carbon filtration)
[Protein Skimmer.......... necessary?]

I'm preeeetty lost when it comes to lighting. heh
Do I need a canopy with (a) bulb(s) for this tank like my fw tanks? (I've read that no "cover" should be used on nano sw tanks....*confused* ??)
All this info on 'blue lights' and lighting in general.... ballasts(?).....Power Compacts(?).........Full spectrum bulbs ?????? (wattage) ?

With regards to corals and live rock(filtration ), I'd like to go with maybe one or two big pieces and then smaller rocks around....
soft corals don't need as much light as hard ones, I know
so soft corals it is? Mushrooms, Polyps, Open Brains, Feather Dusters, and Leather Corals are listed as soft ???
(could someone maybe be a bit more specific on species so I can try to get those )

For the sand(filtration aswell).... 'argonite live sand' ??? Is that commonly available or.... ???

With regards to water, is there a marine salt product by Hagen I could use? Salinity of water in the tank.... 1.0 ...something ?? and pH, since my tapwater is like neutral, what water would I use to get water with pH of ~8.2 (required) ? 'reverse osmosis' ??? (huh? lol)

And bioload... arguably the best part
one or two Percula clownfish (does sex matter ?)
~six Turbo Snails
~four or five Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
What about shrimp? (I like blood shrimp..... they really striking!)

Any changes there?? Additions......? (numbers of animals would help too! )


Hmmm. lol Quite a few questions, I know.
In the end I hope I could have done up a-to-get shopping list for everything that I'll fully understand!




....Thanks everyone!

 

[supahtim]

alllllllllright here we go.

where in Newfoundland do you live? if you are planning on doing a SW reef setup, you're going to have to get used to the whole mailing thing. i live in Toronto, ON and i still have to mail order stuff.

for your heater, 2 smaller sized (50w) heaters would be good enough for the 10g. that way if one decides to kick the bucket, it won't fry your tank, and the other will still be enough to keep it at a good temperature.

for substrate, i prefer around 3" of a fine sand. aragonite live sand will probably be the best choice to use. if you prefer a coarse substrate, aragonite crushed coral will do quite well. that's what i've been using, and my tanks are all doing amazing.

for live rock, i'd suggest around 1 to 2lbs per gallon.

if your going to have the right amount of rock and sand, that will do the filtration for you and all you'll need is a few powerheads to keep the water moving. for a protein skimmer, i'd suggest something small like a AquaC Remora. it will definetly benefit the tank.

for lighting, i'd suggest a couple of 28w power compact lamps (10,000K and actinic 03 are the best combinations that i've seen) or even 4 of those screw in PC bulbs rated at 50/50. the blue bulbs you're talking about are probably the actinic bulbs. they'll bring out all the florescent colours in your corals and even fish.

you got all the soft corals down, except for the brain. that's a Large Polyped Stoney coral (hard coral). keep in mind that not all polyps, mushrooms, or leathers will do good under only PC lamps. some need Metal Halide lights (those are the next best thing to direct sunlight).

as for water, a pH of 8.2 is the proper pH level. i would strongly advise against using tap water in a reef tank. you'll get all kinds of algaes and stuff growing in your tank. the salinity of your water should be around 1.023, and Instant Ocean by Aquarium Systems is what i use. it works just fine for me. if you want a better mix, Tropic Marin makes an amazing product. Reverse Osmosis (RO) or Reverse Osmosis Deionized (RO/DI) water would be great to use. the RO/DI water is better though. if you have one of those bottled water stores by your house that sells that, just get a couple of 5g jugs and use those to fill your tank.

for the bioload, stock your tank slowly. wait until your cycle is complete before you add ANYTHING into your tank. have you read up about the cycle? first comes the Ammonia spike, then the Nitrite spike, then the Nitrate spike. get some test kits to check them out. you got all the fish and inverts down that you'll need. sex doesn't matter on Juvenile clownfish, because they are all born male. once they pair off, the more dominant clownfish will change sex.

a few good websites to check out would be http://www.fragexchange.com/ or http://www.nano-reef.com/.

hope i helped!

Tim

 

[supahtim]

oh yeah and another thing. don't forget to read as MUCH as you can before going out and buying anything. even read up on the rock or sand your buying before you get it. the more you know about everything, the more you'll appreciate it. it's a great feeling bringing a magazine into class and having everybody asking you all these questions that you can actually answer straight up.

Tim

 

[wayne]

OK first of all I don't like nanos - you can set up a much more flexible, stable 20 for the same money. That over with ....
Number one thing to buy is Mike Palettas New marine aquarium, plus other books as you see fit. You need to do more research yet, your questions reveal that. When bad things start to happen, they will happen so fast in a 10 you need to be prepared upfront.
10 gallon tank. 100 Watt heater. If your house is like mine, expect it to only come on rarely. A combination of central heating, powerheads and lighting will keep your water at a good temp. You're looking at a temp of 23C as ideal ,25 highest - I have problems keeping my temp there.
Get 2 small internals or one internal and a powerhead or an external with feed back through a spray bar. Thats for water movement. You might consider an external and keeping the biofiltration IN, and controlling what would be an uncontrollable nitrate buildup in a bigger tank with weekly or twiceweekly 5 - 10% water changes. That would also avoid you needing ot use a skimmer and you could get more stuff OUT of your limited tank space. (UK readers remember a US 10 is NOT a 24*12*12 tank, it's quite a bit smaller!). Likewise, if you use internal look for a combined heater/powerhead unit - small and neat.
For your primary biofiltration look to 10 - 12 lbs of live rock, and see how it looks. Make sure you see every piece before it goes in - if you get 10 lbs and it all looks horrible, you have nowhere tohide it. Up yo you if you get cured or uncured - at this volume I'd go for the best cured available as cost isn't really an issue.
Live sand - up to you.
Lighting - up to you, and what you want to keep, power compacts seem like a good option in N America..

Livestock - up to you , what you can get, and what lighting you have. Feather dusters are worms and have no light requirements.
Fish are a problem - a small pair of tank raised common clowns or neon gobies is your best bet, if you want to have fish at all. Why bother - they'll make your life much harder. Have a tank for a shrimp plus other inverts. Most other fish, though they may only be a few inches are just not suited to a long term life in a very small tank. I'm trying to stock a 30, and realistically that doesn't work for a lot. That's where a 20 long really makes a difference.
Hood - yes you need a hood, else evaporation will cause very difficult fluctuations in salinity , and you'll need to be adding top up water most every day if your cental heating is like mine. Use a standard hood, but adapt as required
Good luck. Lots of people will quibble with elements of the above, but knowledge and quickthinking are more important than any piece of equipment

 

[anthoeny]

Thanks a lot for the posts, guys.

A few more q's though

Since a protein skimmer on this 10g nano is not even fully 'necessary' as such, are there any other skimmers, say, besides the AquaC Remora that are cheaper???

I got the whole lighting thing now, methinks
If I go with a standard hood, and 4 x 28w 50/50 PC's ...or... a 28w 10,000K and a 28w actnic 03
what live rock and corals would I keep (specifics so I can research? )
Two 50w tronics it is....
And livestock.
If I stick with the orig setup,
one or two Percula clownfish
~six Turbo Snails
~four or five Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
A Blood Shrimp

Should be fine right? (of course, slowly stocked after the cycle )

Alright.... and the RO/DI water... I add the Instant Ocean to get the salinity to 1.023... what about pH then? Does it automatically get a pH of 8.2 then? ['buffers'??]

Live sand (argonite perhaps) sounds good....

 

[wayne]

I think with that lighting you can do what you want, bar acropora? Get a book on corals and get reading, also swot on live rock. You actually ned no lighting for live rock per se, but you need light for stuff on the rock

pH will be sey ny IO to about 8.0 or so depending on local water. Some salt mixes assume you will be using tapwater of normal hardness, some assume RO and add extra buffer - I don't recall which IO is.

2 tronics will be a bit overkill for my tastes. With that lighting, and some powerheads you will barely be using the one.

 

[anthoeny]

...After more research...........

If I go with a skimmer, which I may not, how about something like a Combine 3110? (exactly what is a "skimmer" and how does it work/help the aquarium?)

For lighting.... this system seems good:
20" Aqualight 1-96W Power Compact (coralife 96w 50/50 4 tube quad lamp)
found here: http://www.jlaquatics.com/cgi-bin/shopping/jalstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=pc-al2096

..And just place it on top of tank!

Coral suggestions?
(btw, does 'live rock' not have 'corals' on it? the corals are extra right?)

What about vitamin additives? "Zoe Marine Vitamin" by Kent??? ????

Food-- ....feed with?
"Cyclop-eeze" ... "Marine 4 Flake Frenzy" ??????

Kalkwasser ???
What is it (calcium of some sort or something) and would it have to used and if so, how?


And with regards to the pH of 8.2, the live sand ("crushed coral?????") and salt in the water, of course, would keep it at that or....?
Does one need to add something to the R/O water with salinity of 1.023 to get a pH of 8.2? (confused on this matter heh)

 

[anthoeny]

??????

hello?

 

[wayne]

I tihnk if you haven't done this yet, go to a local store and actually look at some skimmers. I tihnk you need to do a ton more research yet.
Yes that's a good lighting option.
Live rock is largely made from dead corals, and may occasionally come with live polyps , but most of the time, to get corals you want, you pay extra. Bear in mind not all corals are compatible with each other, so research before you buy.
Vitamin suplements are useful, but not your concern at this point.
Kalkwasser - is a form of calcium supplementation, but likely not the most useful to you - a 10 is so small a bi-ionic additive is cost effective. Alternatively use a salt brand liek reef crystals that has extra calcium compared to normal for your water changes.
You might need to add something to get your pH that high depending on what salt brand you use.
I don't want to sound harsh, but I think you need to research a lot more yet. Don't worry about calcium and vitamin addition till you fully understand skimming, filtration et al. Don't get caught trying to run when you could be quite happy walking.

 

[anthoeny]

Thanks for the reply, wayne.
Yes I know I need to do more research, and I am building up my knowledge to a complete understanding of everything involved before I buy anything!
The Skilter 250 seems like a practical option for this tank. A filter and a small skimmer all in one machine. ? + Two Powerheads on each side of the tank for filtration
Corals- Mushrooms, Polyps, Feather Dusters, Leathers, Sinularia, Xenia

One more thing pressing
In standard 10gallon tanks, there is a standard canopy that comes with it. [the front part opens to feed the fish etc, the middle part for the light strip (with a strip of glass directly under it for condensation, and the back part which you cut pieces out of to place equip].
For this tank, with the lighting mentioned above, http://www.jlaquatics.com/cgi-bin/s...logno=pc-al2096 , would I just take everything (the standard hood/canopy) and just place the light on top, say, with the optional legs for the lighting ? (Provided a ~few inches would be left at the back for the Skilter and heater and powerheads) ????? All accounted for, thats one of the only technical things that I'm not clear on ;

 

[wayne]

Yes the skilter seem like good option except everyone says they're rubbish..... ask around on other forums - here in Europe we have a similar item from aquamedic that also looks 'unlikely'. Stick to the live rock + powerheads, or an external rated at a 100 gallons + per hour with spraybar return.
<that lighting looks fine, but beware you are going from a closed hood to an open top, and your rate of evaporation will go through the roof! This will be a big problem for you. I expect you could make a thin cover glass to go on top, but any dirt willl really impact light levels. Check out designs/workarounds on nanoreef.
As a crude comparism I have my 30 next to an uncovered 20 long freshwater. The 30 barely moves as I've retrofitted so tightly, but the fresh drops up to 1/2 inch a day thro evaporation, which with a total height of 13 inches is a high % - you can do the math on what it would do to your salinity....
Some of those corals are pretty toxic - you may with to simplify or edit the list. Are you familiar with alleopathy - coralline chemical warfare?

 

[anthoeny]

Check around for experiences with skilters
And a clean glass top seems good....

No, I'm not really familar with alleopathy...... ?
To avoid it, which corals should I not add out of these (which, from tanks I've seen all over the internet, seem good to keep in a 10g nano ?)
Mushrooms, Polyps, Feather Dusters, Leathers, Sinularia, Xenia

?

 

[S.Reef]

I have a Skilter 250 on my 20 gallon reef. In conjunction with the Live rock and sand it keeps water parameters perfect. However I only turn the skimmer part on about one day every week. I think that it is a really good filter and skimmer. When the skimmer is turned on, it is really noisy, however its only on for a day. If you got one, I don't see the reason in keeping the power heads and aquaclear, as the skilter pumps 250 gallons of water an hour. More then enough for a 10 gallon tank.

Sam Reef
______________
90 Gallon FOWLR Marine System
20 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Marine Aquarium
20 Gallon Freshwater Planted Aquarium

 

[anthoeny]

Okay, so the Skilter it is, minus the powerheads

A list of corals to put in the 10g?

 

[S.Reef]

Mmm...try the different kinds of mushroom coral, Toadstools, Colt Corals, Devils Hand, and the different kinds of polyp corals-Star burst, Yellow, Button, Xenia, Glove, and Elegant. Once you build up your skills with these, try the Bubble,Frog Spawn. Hammer, and Elegance.

Good luck, Sam Reef
________________
90 Gallon FOWLR Marine System
20 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Reef
10 Gallon Marine Aquarium
20 Gallon Freshwater Planted Aquarium

 

[anthoeny]

Thanks so much!

Okaaaay. So here's my setup in words (I like to see things! heh)

10g saltwater nano reef

10g standard tank
Aragonite sand- 2-3"
Live rock, cured- 8-10 lbs
Hydrometer
Heater- 100w Tronic ~78-80̊
Filter/Protein Skimmer- Skilter 250
20" Aqualight 1-96W Power Compact (coralife 96w 50/50 4 tube quad lamp) *on legs
http://www.jlaquatics.com/cgi-bin/s...logno=pc-al2096
Glass cover (kept clean!) on top of aquarium [with hinges in middle to open in front]
Corals: Mushrooms, Polyps, Toadstools, Colt Corals, Devils Hand Leather

*Water Changes: 15% weekly
Plastic 5g bucket
Small powerhead
Cheap heater- same temp as tank
-Use RO/DI water...mix Instant Ocean salt ~ 1.023 salinity
-Sit overnight with equip on
-Test salinity with hydrometer
-Test pH ~ 8.2 (Add Kent Marine Aquarium Buffer if neccessary)
–> Top off evap. water only with RO/DI water, not salted water!

LIVESTOCK:
2 x Percula clownfish
6 x Turbo Snails
4 x Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
1 x Cleaner Shrimp


....Thumbs up?!?!



**ONly Three pressing questions:
-How should I stock these fish after the cycle? (which ones first/last etc?
-What should I feed my fish...and my corals ???
-Vitamin supplementation? Necessary....Suggestions ?

 

[wayne]

I don't want to siund repetitive, but have a look at that skimmer first. Sam admits his is noisy (like my prizm) and he only keeps it on 1 day a week, but you will be relying on it 24/7. Pretty tough if you don't like the noise. If you're thinking on having this in your bedroom, think again. Sam?
Personally if you're planning to do 15% a week changes from a 5 gall bucket made up in front, i'd ditch the skimmer and get a combined heater/powehead + another smll powerhead OR spraybar the one, and do 2 10% changes a week.
I tihnk you have a bigger cleanup crew than necassary, but thats not the end of the world. I would consider running this without fish for 6 months as they're you're biggest 'instability'.

 

[supahtim]

wow...6 turbo snails in a 10g aquarium is a bit much. they will grow extremely huge for that tank. stick with Astrea or Margerita snails and you should do fine.

when your getting your hermit crabs, make sure they are DWARF blue legged hermit crabs. the regular ones are a bit aggressive.

as for your lighting, J&L aquatics is a tad bit expensive... have you looked at some of the US sites? http://www.islandaquatics.com is a great site to order stuff from. just ask for Joe.

for the heater, go with a 50w. i have a 100w on my 30g and it works great.

feed the clownfish a variety of brineshrimp, marine flakes and bloodworms. the flakes are fine most of the time, but they do need protein and other stuff like that in their diet to stay healthy.

with the amount of LR and LS that you have in the tank, you won't need a filter, so just get a skimmer and that should be fine.

don't put a cover on the tank. you need proper gas exchange, and the glass cover would completely rob the tank of it.

i put my clownfish in my tank after a month...but it's your choice. the longer you wait, the better it is. i already had my fish so i just threw them in the new tank when everything settled down.

everything seems good though...so good luck with the tank!! hope you've been reading!

Tim

 

[anthoeny]

Thanks guys!

So:

-Eliminate the Turbos, get some (say, 4 or 5?) Astrea Snails instead.....DWARF blue-legged hermits

-Protein Skimmer? Yes? No? I'm being told to get one, then not to ..Do skimmers hook up to your powerhead or do they run by themselves? (The explanations out there are so confusing! eck! lol ..How do they function?) ..... Which skimmer would anyone suggest ?
* After more internet research, the Skilter (250) seems like it would be a good choice as it is a 2-in-1 (filter & skimmer)
site about skilter 250:
http://www.noahspets.com/Merchant/m...ode=30154&Category_Code=F1-F&Product_Count=10
Explain how it works perhaps ?

-LIGHTING (the most confusing part in my opinion!).... :S
Here are the dimensions of the tank I'll be using:
19.81" x 9.56 x 12.06"
Without the glass on top (open top) {Wouldn't that cause a ton of evaporation?}, the lighting would have to be mounted on legs, right?
So from the site referred, http://www.islandaquatics.com , which lighting PC [deluxe] lighting system would I get? this one?
http://www.islandaquatics.com/product_detail.php?category_id=16&product_id=324

[But isn't that more expensive, $211 american, than the other one I was gonna get ? from here
http://www.jlaquatics.com/cgi-bin/shopping/jalstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=pc-al2096
which was only $149.95 CAN ??? ]


...That remains to be the only real issue that is confouding me!



Again, thanks everyone for all your help!

 

[anthoeny]

Oh and since wayne said the Skilter would probably be noisy, could I just "turn off the skimmer part" ? Is that possible so it wouldn't be noisy and just leave the filter on all the time and "turn the skimmer part on" say, 1 day a week like S. Reef ?