refugium setup?

[arcab4]

i took this description off reefland....

"The easiest refugium setup for your situation would be, have the 10g refugium tank drilled for a 1" bulkhead a few inches down from the top. Have it drilled on one of the short sides. Then build a small platform that will raise it a couple of inches over your sump. Just high enough that the drilled hole is above the top of the sump.

Then plop a small powerhead (~100gph or less) into the sump and put the output of the powerhead into the refugium. Preferably on the far side of the refugium, away from the outlet. Plumb a short piece of pipe into the bulkhead in the refugium so that the output it placed where you want it in your sump, and you're done.

So essentially you will pump water from your sump into your refugium and that will overflow back into your sump through the drilled hole."

my sump is a 15gallon...could i do that..with like a 5gallon tank since a 10gallon won't fit into my stand? it's better than going with the cpr aquafuge right?

 

[dattack]

Just remember that to drill a hole cost in glass cost around $20 each hole.  Each bulkhead costs around 7$.  I think you can get a 5 gallon clear plastic container or 5 gallon acrylic container and drill the hole.  Or ask your LFS to have a premade 5 gallon tank for you.
Yes you can do it as the description states but you can also do it without the pump if you like.  Actually you can have a the water return from the tank that goes into a T.  Water can return from the tank to the refugium using a ball valve to slow down the flow and the rest of the water can return to the sump.  Therefore, water from the 5 gallon which is filling up by the T can return to the sump by gravity to the sump via the bulkheads.

Do you get it?

 

[dattack]

Did you already buy the 15 gallon?  You know they also sell 20 gallon longs too right?  Would that fit as a sump?

Rather than have two separate aquariums, you can separate the 20 gallon long with plexiglass and drill a hole in one of the baffles, which would return water from the refugium to the sump by gravity.  I just want to warn you that drilling a hole in a glass tank cost around 20$.

In other words, the tank will have baffles in this order:

REFUGIUM (baffle with bulkhead) SUMP (baffles)(baffles)RETURN PUMP

Oh yeah, I light my refugium with the power compact flood light model 9266 (Total of 65watts) for only $25.  It is really white and bright.

 

[arcab4]

yeah. i had a 20gallon long. after spending a good hard 10minutes scrubbing off the stickers..i found out it doesn't fit in my stand. nor does a 20gallon high. so i had to go down to the 15gallon.  

but i have a new idea for a refugium..i wrote it in my 60gallon thread. hmm.

 

[arcab4]

quick question....

the hole in my refugium where water would flow into the tank...would it be below water level or halfway above it? i'm thinking if it's below water level, won't it drain too fast?

here...i did a quick mockup of my setup. is this possible? any problems with it? the water from the overflow would tee of into two pipes..one into the sump..one into the refugium.

 

[dattack]

The hole in the refugium should be at near the top of the refugium.  It's flow to the sump should equal the flow from the T return.

 

[tabby360]

what are sump and refugiums, im very confused on what they do

 

[dattack]

A sump is just a big container that takes water from your main tank and returns water to your main tank.  It usually sits in your aquarium stand.  People use it because you can hide all your equipment in it like a heater, pumps, skimmers.  People don't like to see too many equipment hanging in the main tank because it takes up room and is ugly.

A refugium is a "refuge" where you can put certain animals like shrimps and fishes that can't get eaten up in the main tank.  It also houses plants and macroalgae that help to reduce nitrates from the main tank.  

 

[arcab4]

after calling around, i just can't find a place that'll cut a hole for me for my refugium. so i guess rubbermaid it is...anybody have any suggestions? any specific type of rubbermaid? i would like it as clear as possible..cause i want to see what's going on in the tank. i found this useful link that i might try to copy....

http://www.gcstudios.com/nagelsreef/Makeover/diyrefugium.html

she mentions that her pipe doesn't touch the water in the refugium so it won't get siphoned. with my setup, is that a problem. i was going to add a "t" pipe (at the curve is an opening for air) to get rid of bubbles so that should eliminate the siphoning problem right? i wanted my pipes to go below water level to make it quieter.

hey dattack..how is ur refugium setup? have any pics?

is acrylic easier to cut than glass? more brittle or stronger? someone on the reef boards mentioned an acrylic tank they got from a petstore. maybe i could figure somehow how to tdrill it.

 

[dattack]

If you look under glass shops in the yellow pages, I am sure there are a few places that will do it for you.  Even ask the LFS if they know.  I know 2 around my block that do it but I wasn't going to pay $20.
You can get those clear plastic containers at Kmart/Home Depot etc. that hold like 10 gallons I believe and cut a hole with a hole bit.  If you have a drill already, you can get a hole saw bit at home depot for a few bucks or you can use a drill bit too.  Gotta make sure the bulkhead fits in though.
But I would think you can make a refugium in your sump if you want to. Just silicone some plexiglass baffles in your sump to partition the refugium from the sump.  You can get cheap plexiglass at home depot and get some silicone tubing at home depot also.  The big tube of GE clear 100% Window & Door silicone found at HD is aquarium safe (It's a big blue and white one).
I had my first setup that looked like this before I knew there was a leak in the bottom.  It was a used old tank .

http://home.pacbell.net/dattack/new_sump_1.jpghttp://home.pacbell.net/dattack/sump_final_small.jpg

If you find a cheap acrylic tank it is easier to drill bulkheads and easier to fix plexiglass to the acrylic tank.  But you have to use weldon for it to stick together.  Glueing glass and acrylic won't be as tight because silicone doesn't bind these two very well but if it's in sump, a little leak doesn't matter.

Given that my glass refugium/sump had a crack, I used a rubbermaid sump now and put a refugium next to the display tank.  I don't have pics for it but it could be a problem because the return from the refugium to the main tank is a U-tube.  A small pump from the main tank sends water to the refugium and then the refugium returns water to the U-tube.  I am going to have to rebuild a refugium/sump combo next again.
Currently it kinda look like this because it's hard to drill a hole in a small glass tank because the glass is so thin.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa041400.htm?once=true&

 

[arcab4]

thanks for the diagrams. i don't think i can put a refugium into my 15gallon. not enough room. besides, i wanted to keep the lighting for the refugium seperate from the sump. just to keep my sump free from algae.

i'll try to call around some other glass shops and find out. oh yeah..do u have any problems with saltcreep? since my sump is opened (no cover) i was wondering if that was a problem. i guess i could always build a cover for it once i place my equipments in there.

how about cpr overflows? i've read some bad things about them. i'm stopping by my lfs to ask about a tank with an overflow built in.

 

[dattack]

Hey I had a glass sump but there was a small leak and I had to use a rubbermaid sump.  And I have be too lazy and rubbermaid has been doing to well of a job to change.
Don't buy the CPR because you need a pump to start the siphon.  The best overflow is made from Lifereef and the amiracle is a cheap alternative ($40 here at my LFS).
If you can get a tank with a build in overflow or has a hole drilled for bulkheads, that would be much better than a HOB overflow.  It will be less flood and easier to plumb.  And the HOB overflows are expensive too!
If you can get a ready reef tank, go for it.  There is a guy on the recycler advertising for sumps.  I called him many times and he does custom sumps.  I asked him how much it would cost for I believe a 20 gallon sump with baffles and bulkheads?  He said $75-125$?  I would bargain with him and get as low as you can go.  He's independent working at home or something and those guys you should make a deal.  Don't be afraid to bargain!
But I believe he can make you a 10 gallon refugium for about $30.  Because I asked about this a while back (3 months ago).  Give him a call.  I got to find his add because I think he last advertised about a week ago but he advertises every month though.

 

[dattack]

Try this.  I have it in my inbox about 2 months ago.  I hope it's the right number but here is the sump dimension.

they are 18/14/14 call for more info i have all diff sizes  (562) 651-0121
Thank you

Watch out.  He will talk to you all day about sumps and how he uses only the best material called Lexan acrylic which is the expensive stuff.   ;D

 

[arcab4]

sweet. thanks. what's a reef-ready tank? off the top of you head, do u know how much a tank with a builtin overflow would be (extra)?

with tanks w/ builtin overflows, where is the output? do i have to drill a hole into my stand?

thanks for the information. i'll give the guy a call.

 

[dattack]

I actually don't know how much more it will cost but I am thinking about getting one in the future.  It makes it much simpler.  Anyways a good overflow box cost $100 so I would guess one that is reefready should be about that too.  I would definitely put in the extra money to get one like that because all you have to do is to put in bulkheads.  
You can have the holes drill at the bottom or holes drilled at the top.  The one at the bottom would give you more flow rate since there is more water pressure at the bottom.  Ready reef tanks are the ones with the built in overflows.  They have a hole already drilled at the bottom for you.
So pretty much the wate flow directly down to your sump with a pvc pipe.  Your stand should have a hole to accomodate a pipe.  
It should look something like this with the hole you see there as a water return hole?
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1307242346

 

[arcab4]

some good news..

i went to my lfs and talked to the guy. he said it would be cool for me to bring in my 60gallon tank and exchange it for a 60gallon with a built-in overflow. it'll cost me about 50dollars more so that works out for me (my cpr overflow was like 83 dollars). but it's not that big of a deal cause i'll have to ship it back and eat the shipping cost.

i called the number you gave me. the guy's name is stewart. really nice guy. he started to talk about lexan acrylic like you said.   i gotta go measure my stand size but this is what he has...

a 10gallon tank - he'll drill two holes plus a hole on the cover (for the pipe to enter) for $55. the size of the tank is 14x14x18.

he also has a bunch of 5gallon tanks for $35. that measure approx. 12x8x10 i believe.

i told him i'll get in contact with him later after i figure out what exactly i need. but hey..at least i found a place! thanks dattack!  *thumbsupsmiley*

oh yeah. my overflow is going to be on the leftsidecorner. i told him to drill a hole on the right side so i can loop my powerheads into there. do i need anymore? i have two powerheads..i was going to place them on opposite sides but on one side is the overflow. any ideas?

 

[dattack]

Only $50 more for a built in overflow? That's a good deal!
I am glad the guy Stewart was able to help you.  I think I flaked on him a few times because I say I would meet him.  Well anyways, looks like he knows his sump and can fit your needs.
;D

 

[arcab4]

thanks man. now that we got that sorta out of the way..any tips on the plumbing? like noise reduction etc?

oh yeah. if i have the drain go into the sump below water level, will that cause any problems with it siphoning out the water if the power fails?

is it better to use 90degree or 45degree elbow pipes (where it turns) to reduce noise? my lfs guy said to reduce bubbles to have the pipe that flows into the sump to have a "T" at the curve...so it'll have an open "vent" for the air to be sucked out.

i'll draw a diagram or something later.

thanks!

 

[dattack]

These are the commonly used modifications to limit the amount of noise of an overflow.  There are some variations but you might have to do a search at


reefcentral.http://home.att.net/~rstockman/overflow.htm

http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe_frame.htm