Personal Log, Star Date: 7/7/2002
- Thread starter equinom
- Start date
7/17/2002
10:00 pm
NH3/NH4 ~ 0.5ppm
NO2 Very High. Way over 5.
Turns purple as soon as the reagent is added.
NO3 ?
This test kit (AP NitrAte) has 2 reagents. The first is a very bright yellow, the second is clear. During a normal test - it starts as bright yellow and when the second reagent is added and mixed, the final color develops over 5 minutes.
Not this time.
As soon as the first, yellow, reagent touched the water - the color changed to a brownish/redish color. Added the clear reagent, and the color lightened to a brighter yellow to about a final reading around 5.
I suspected the kit was the problem, so I used that same kit and tested some other water sources. The kit reacted normally. Went back and repeated nitrAte test on cycling tank - same weird color thing.
Cleaned all the test tubes and caps very well - repeated test - weird color thing.
What is going on? Being that the nitrIte and nitrAte as acting so weird, I don't know if I should add more ammonia...?
Is it the crap on the rocks causing this problem? Thinking of taking out the suspect rocks and bleaching them...
Barnacles! I thought things were moving along nicely
10:00 pm
NH3/NH4 ~ 0.5ppm
NO2 Very High. Way over 5.
Turns purple as soon as the reagent is added.
NO3 ?
This test kit (AP NitrAte) has 2 reagents. The first is a very bright yellow, the second is clear. During a normal test - it starts as bright yellow and when the second reagent is added and mixed, the final color develops over 5 minutes.
Not this time.
As soon as the first, yellow, reagent touched the water - the color changed to a brownish/redish color. Added the clear reagent, and the color lightened to a brighter yellow to about a final reading around 5.
I suspected the kit was the problem, so I used that same kit and tested some other water sources. The kit reacted normally. Went back and repeated nitrAte test on cycling tank - same weird color thing.
Cleaned all the test tubes and caps very well - repeated test - weird color thing.
What is going on? Being that the nitrIte and nitrAte as acting so weird, I don't know if I should add more ammonia...?
Is it the crap on the rocks causing this problem? Thinking of taking out the suspect rocks and bleaching them...
Barnacles! I thought things were moving along nicely
7/18/2002
7:45 am
Changed about 15% water.
Took filter apart, rinsed all foams - lots of laterite dust.
DID NOT TOUCH CERAMIC RINGS
Also changed from "spray bar" to "power nozzle" (thought a change in water flow might help???)
Did not add any ammonia. Just going to let it run for a few hours, then retest.
7:45 am
Changed about 15% water.
Took filter apart, rinsed all foams - lots of laterite dust.
DID NOT TOUCH CERAMIC RINGS
Also changed from "spray bar" to "power nozzle" (thought a change in water flow might help???)
Did not add any ammonia. Just going to let it run for a few hours, then retest.
7/18/2002
7:30 pm
Water Clear, no odor
Temp 78F, steady
pH 8 - 8.2
KH 9, repeated to be sure
PO4 less than 0.25
NH3/NH4 0
NO2 Very High - over 5, off chart
NO3 Same weird color thing
So - do I take out the suspect rocks, bleach them, change water and start adding ammonia again?
OR
remove and bleach the rocks, wipe out whatever is on the ceramic rings (by heat), do massive water change and start adding ammonia again?
Suggestions, please...
7:30 pm
Water Clear, no odor
Temp 78F, steady
pH 8 - 8.2
KH 9, repeated to be sure
PO4 less than 0.25
NH3/NH4 0
NO2 Very High - over 5, off chart
NO3 Same weird color thing
So - do I take out the suspect rocks, bleach them, change water and start adding ammonia again?
OR
remove and bleach the rocks, wipe out whatever is on the ceramic rings (by heat), do massive water change and start adding ammonia again?
Suggestions, please...
I would just remove the rocks and continue cycling. nitrites can and will appear even with ammonia still there, and nitrates can appear with nitrites present.
I wouldn't add the rocks back. Pop them in a bucket of water and test THAT water for nitrates in a couple of days.
Your "odd growths" might be contributing as well.
I wouldn't add the rocks back. Pop them in a bucket of water and test THAT water for nitrates in a couple of days.
Your "odd growths" might be contributing as well.
I would leave everything in. I had similiar "growths" on my bog wood when I cycled my tank. After cycling the stuff sort of just disappeared. Also, the bacteria that break down nitrites take a little longer to establish themselves. It took 54 days for me to cycle a 29 gallon tank. It took forever but IMO you just have to be patient and wait. Also, once you start changing things around and cleaning things you will prolong the cycle.
I understand about the rise and fall of components. That's what it's supposed to do - at least that's what I expected it to do.
The dilema is:
* the extremely high level of nitrItes, could this be inhibiting the growth of nitrobacter? The nitrAte readings have dropped off - while the nitrItes climb
* the funky stuff on the rocks. What could it be, is it screwing up the cycle?
*the nitrAte test - just what is going on there? Is the high nitrIte level responsible for the weird nitrAte results?
Sometimes it's better to realize that there is a problem before too much time/money is invested. It has only been about 2 weeks and things are weird. Would it be better to just start over again?
The dilema is:
* the extremely high level of nitrItes, could this be inhibiting the growth of nitrobacter? The nitrAte readings have dropped off - while the nitrItes climb
* the funky stuff on the rocks. What could it be, is it screwing up the cycle?
*the nitrAte test - just what is going on there? Is the high nitrIte level responsible for the weird nitrAte results?
Sometimes it's better to realize that there is a problem before too much time/money is invested. It has only been about 2 weeks and things are weird. Would it be better to just start over again?
Sounds like the nitrites are spiking as they should. Any fishless cycles I've done, the nitrites were "off the scale" for about a week or 2.
As to the nitrates, I would hazard a *guess* that the growths are/were contributing in their own way to the production of nitrates.
I'd personally give it another week, with maybe a water change to "jump start" the nitrites.
As to the nitrates, I would hazard a *guess* that the growths are/were contributing in their own way to the production of nitrates.
I'd personally give it another week, with maybe a water change to "jump start" the nitrites.
luvfishies -
Thank you - you are the first to say that in your fishless cycle your nitrItes were off the chart. It is therefor logical to assume that the cycle is not going off into some "worm hole" ... it's on track. For now....
First officer spouce has anounced his intentions to beam the tank to a new location is aprox. 7 - 10 days. When questioned about the overall significance of this action, there was no logical explanation.
Scanners are picking up a black hole where the first officer's brain is supposed to be...
Will continue to add ammonia to keep tank around 3ppm until moved. Will then have to drain, remove rocks to relocate entire tank about 20 feet. ???
Thank you - you are the first to say that in your fishless cycle your nitrItes were off the chart. It is therefor logical to assume that the cycle is not going off into some "worm hole" ... it's on track. For now....
First officer spouce has anounced his intentions to beam the tank to a new location is aprox. 7 - 10 days. When questioned about the overall significance of this action, there was no logical explanation.
Scanners are picking up a black hole where the first officer's brain is supposed to be...
Will continue to add ammonia to keep tank around 3ppm until moved. Will then have to drain, remove rocks to relocate entire tank about 20 feet. ???
this science officer would hypothesize that the draining and moving of the enclosed environment will NOT delay the biological activity present in said tank.
this action would mimic a rather large waterchange which does no harm as long as the ammonia is fed to the microbes in question to keep them nourished.
this action would mimic a rather large waterchange which does no harm as long as the ammonia is fed to the microbes in question to keep them nourished.
luvfishies wrote:
"this science officer would hypothesize that the draining and moving of the enclosed environment will NOT delay the biological activity present in said tank."
Yes, that is logical.
But it WILL delay all other biological activity on the ship...
and I believe that is against the Prime Directive...
"this science officer would hypothesize that the draining and moving of the enclosed environment will NOT delay the biological activity present in said tank."
Yes, that is logical.
But it WILL delay all other biological activity on the ship...
and I believe that is against the Prime Directive...
(Sorry this thread was not updated in a timely fashion. I have been ill, and someone else was having to muck around with the tank. I do have test results and I was able to get across to them what should be done... only time will tell if they were able to handle it)
7/21/02
5:00 pm
NO3 is still off chart. Nothing has been changed.
Filter, heaters and airstone on running. No lights.
7/22/02
7:30 pm
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/23/02
8:00 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/24/02
6:00 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
NO2 Still of chart, but color took time to develop. It had been immediate, but not this time - value is dropping.
NO3 High, off chart
Add 1 cap clear ammonia
10:00 pm
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/25/02
8:15 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/26/02
8:15 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/21/02
5:00 pm
NO3 is still off chart. Nothing has been changed.
Filter, heaters and airstone on running. No lights.
7/22/02
7:30 pm
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/23/02
8:00 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/24/02
6:00 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
NO2 Still of chart, but color took time to develop. It had been immediate, but not this time - value is dropping.
NO3 High, off chart
Add 1 cap clear ammonia
10:00 pm
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/25/02
8:15 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
7/26/02
8:15 am
NH3/NH4 is negative
Add 2 caps clear ammonia
07/27/02
12:00 noon
Performed a water change, ended up being a much larger water change than expected. "Assistant" left drain hose in, and never checked on it. Out of a 55 gal, let's say about
45 gal were changed.....(barnacles!)
Filling the tank disturbed the substrate quite a bit, it was a bit cloudy.
Cleaned the filter pads and the impeller. Added filter floss in top compartment to help reduce particulates.
Allowed tank to stand for about 3 hours, then restored power.
Will check chemistrys later.
12:00 noon
Performed a water change, ended up being a much larger water change than expected. "Assistant" left drain hose in, and never checked on it. Out of a 55 gal, let's say about
45 gal were changed.....(barnacles!)
Filling the tank disturbed the substrate quite a bit, it was a bit cloudy.
Cleaned the filter pads and the impeller. Added filter floss in top compartment to help reduce particulates.
Allowed tank to stand for about 3 hours, then restored power.
Will check chemistrys later.
8/3
3:00 pm
Nothing much has been happening - pH is stable around 7.8, NH3/NH4 is negative every morning, NO2 is slowly going down and NO3 is climbing.
Every evening I add about 2.5 ml (1/2 cap) clear ammonia.
Another week or so, a couple of water changes, and time to shop.
Well, ...
First officer has not completed the required modifications to the transporter, so the tank has yet to be beamed to it's final location. His insistance and out right contempt for authority is being regarded as mutiny, treason and as a general pain the *ss. But I ascended to the rank of captain by knowing what battles were worth fighting... and then by stealthly getting revenge on the enemy...
3:00 pm
Nothing much has been happening - pH is stable around 7.8, NH3/NH4 is negative every morning, NO2 is slowly going down and NO3 is climbing.
Every evening I add about 2.5 ml (1/2 cap) clear ammonia.
Another week or so, a couple of water changes, and time to shop.
Well, ...
First officer has not completed the required modifications to the transporter, so the tank has yet to be beamed to it's final location. His insistance and out right contempt for authority is being regarded as mutiny, treason and as a general pain the *ss. But I ascended to the rank of captain by knowing what battles were worth fighting... and then by stealthly getting revenge on the enemy...
Ok, so I have never paid much attention to this whole fishless cycle deal ...
The goal or point is that it's more humane?
It seems to be that you're going through a lot of trouble for no reason. Adding ammonia? Bah!
Why don't you just bop on down to the LFS and buy a live plant of some type? Nicely ask them to toss in a few ounces of water. Go home and add them to your aquarium. The plant contains enough bacteria culture to kick things off. A little extra pre-conditioned water is sure to get things rolling.
Presto!
(I cyceld 3 aquariums since you posted this on my method ... )
Or am I missing something here?
-B
The goal or point is that it's more humane?
It seems to be that you're going through a lot of trouble for no reason. Adding ammonia? Bah!
Why don't you just bop on down to the LFS and buy a live plant of some type? Nicely ask them to toss in a few ounces of water. Go home and add them to your aquarium. The plant contains enough bacteria culture to kick things off. A little extra pre-conditioned water is sure to get things rolling.
Presto!
(I cyceld 3 aquariums since you posted this on my method ... )
Or am I missing something here?
-B
8/5
7:30 pm
Praise Poseidon!
NH3/NH4 negative
NO2 negative
NO3 40ppm
Time to shop.
and back... there are a few plants in there... java moss and clippings from the planted tank. Not a lot - but it's all from my established tank - so I trust the source.
last comment... where were you 3 weeks ago? I saw that you pretty much ignored the thread, but barnacles - would have liked to have read your opinion.
This has been shorter than the "fish" cycle I did on my 12 gal.
That tank was done in true neophyte fashion: set up tank, let it run about 1 week - get about 5 fish, wait about 1 week, add 5 more fish - in 2 days take out the 3 dead fish, get 5 more fish, take out the dead fish, etc...
after 3 months of frustration and a lot of dead fish, things settled down. This took from July 7 to August 5. Much shorter than my previous experience - and a lot less traumatic and expensive.
Regardless.
Ships log. Star date: 08082002 Mission complete - life form established and thriving. Will have to revist this filter occasionally to document the life form's evolution.
7:30 pm
Praise Poseidon!
NH3/NH4 negative
NO2 negative
NO3 40ppm
Time to shop.
and back... there are a few plants in there... java moss and clippings from the planted tank. Not a lot - but it's all from my established tank - so I trust the source.
last comment... where were you 3 weeks ago? I saw that you pretty much ignored the thread, but barnacles - would have liked to have read your opinion.
This has been shorter than the "fish" cycle I did on my 12 gal.
That tank was done in true neophyte fashion: set up tank, let it run about 1 week - get about 5 fish, wait about 1 week, add 5 more fish - in 2 days take out the 3 dead fish, get 5 more fish, take out the dead fish, etc...
after 3 months of frustration and a lot of dead fish, things settled down. This took from July 7 to August 5. Much shorter than my previous experience - and a lot less traumatic and expensive.
Regardless.
Ships log. Star date: 08082002 Mission complete - life form established and thriving. Will have to revist this filter occasionally to document the life form's evolution.