Need Help with Invisible Mysterious Disease

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
0
0
#1
Ok my 5 gallon Marineland fishtank seems to have some sort of invisible mysterious disease floating in it. For about a month now, any fish I put in seems to develop something which causes them to sit/hang out at the bottom of the tank until they die. They just lie on the gravel as the symptoms get worse, eventually they are on their side and then they die.

I can rule out the usual suspects. I see no white spots, cotton or fungal growths, no redness or bleeding around gills or fins. no descaling. no swollen bellies. no sores. There doesn't seem to be any visible signs other than the drowsiness/sitting on bottom symptom.

At first I thought it was just a fluke since my tank has been up and running for several years now. I had one Gourami and an ottocinclus. Both died within days of each other. I switched to a Zoomed 501 Nano Canister filter a few months ago with good results. Readings for ammonia, nitrates are within acceptable parameters. I do water changes every 2 weeks and never overfeed. Its a planted tank and I do not overstock.

When the Gourami and otto died, I did a major water change. I waited a few days and got a Betta, and eventually, another Ottocinclus, and a Kuali Loach, waiting a week between new additions to the tank.

Now, two weeks after I got the Betta, it seems the mysterious disease has struck again cause my Betta is sitting on the bottom, tilting to the side. He has no appetite for food and seems to be breathing fast. I can see his gills pumping faster than normal, like he's got labored breathing. He's also hanging out near the pump intake like he's not strong enough to fight the current.

The oxygen flow should be adequate in the tank..since I have the Zoomed's drip tube set up so that water drips into the tank with enough force to cause bubbles and ripples.

I'm thoroughly confused as to what this disease could be. The only measure I've taken is to add a few drops of Melafix (tea tree oil) as a general treatment. I don't want to start dumping antibiotics or etc. until I know more.

Has anyone else had any experience dealing with something like this? Can anyone offer suggestions as to what to do? Thank you in advance.
 

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
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0
#3
What are the actual readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?
Hi!
Nitrate 20 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Total Hardness 25 ppm
Total Alkalinity 0 ppm
Ph 5.5

I used one of those testing strips.

For Ammonia, I have one of those visual monitors you stick to the side of your tank and so far its showing as "safe" for ammonia levels. I will go to petstore tomorrow and pick up a proper ammonia testing kit just in case.


Also want to add that I did a 40% water change and gravel vacc only 2 days ago and checked the canister filter which seemed to be running fine.
 

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FreshyFresh

Superstar Fish
Jan 11, 2013
1,337
23
38
East Aurora, NY
#4
Arch, you need a decent liquid test kit, not test strips. Many of us use the API master test kit because it's readily available. It is $25 or so, but will last for years.

With a 5gal tank, you'd probably need to do 50% WC's several times per week.
 

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
0
0
#5
Arch, you need a decent liquid test kit, not test strips. Many of us use the API master test kit because it's readily available. It is $25 or so, but will last for years.

With a 5gal tank, you'd probably need to do 50% WC's several times per week.
Gonna pick up that kit afterwork today. Thanks for suggesting it.
 

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
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0
#6
Gonna pick up that kit afterwork today. Thanks for suggesting it.
Was searching online for more info about this kit. Apparently there's a 5 year shelf life to the test chemicals. Is there any way to check the expiration date on the box before buying it at the store? Thanks
 

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
0
0
#9
Arch, you need a decent liquid test kit, not test strips. Many of us use the API master test kit because it's readily available. It is $25 or so, but will last for years.

With a 5gal tank, you'd probably need to do 50% WC's several times per week.
So, I picked up the Freshwater Master kit from API afterwork and tested my water. I have to say that the test for Nitrate really tires out your arms..heh.

Ammonia: 0 ppm
PH: 6.4
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm

So, it seems my water quality is adequate. I did do a 50% water change and gravel vacc just for good measure. During the W/C process my sick betta actually got up and swam around to avoid the vacuum. He seemed pretty healthy at first. However, when I was finished with the water change, he quickly settled back to his spot near the pump intake and lay on the bottom. I tried to attach some photos but the manage attachements window doesn't seem to be working..

At this point I'm not sure what it could be..I'm thinking it might be bacterial. I do see alot of rapid breathing with his gills but no white spots.

Would dosing my tank with a general antibiotic like Erythromycin or maybe Tetracycline help my betta and the rest of the inhabitants? So far, I can't tell if Melafix is doing anything.

At at loss as what to do..
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#10
0 Nitrates shows the tank is not cycled. If you've HAD or now have high ammonia and/or nitrite, that can cause permanent damage to the gills of most fish (some like 'zebra danio' can regenerate gill tissue to an extent).

Sitting listless at the bottom would not suggest a bacterial infection.

You listed 20ppm for nitrate earlier, and now it shows 0. I would suggest rechecking ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, re-reading the instructions to make sure they are followed exactly. Something is wrong if the betta is just resting on the bottom all of the time.
 

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Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
0
0
#11
Yeah the most recent numbers were done tonight with my new API freshwater kit. The previous numbers were from a test strip that had an expiration date of 2011. I will re-test for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite tomorrow with the new fresh kit.

Maybe I'm reading the nitrate result wrong? I'm pretty sure its a cycled tank since I've had it for years. Its also planted. I was kinda surprised it showed as 0 Nitrate when I tested it tonight.

There's definitely something wrong with the betta. Not only does it sit listless, its also not eating and tilts to the side every now and then. I see his dorsal fins fluttering around madly too like hes trying to swim against the current.

I use Seachem's Prime as my water conditioner. Could that screw up the results of my water tests? I will also try to take photos of tomorrow's test/colors and post.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#12
You can get a 'false positive' for ammonia if Prime is binding ammonia that is present (making it less toxic ammonium). It would not make a valid reading LOWER however.
 

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
0
0
#13
Well my Betta died :(
When I left this morning, it looked like he was recovering. He was actually swimming around slowly and not lying at the bottom. However, when I came home after work, I found him dead, floating at the top of the tank in a vertical position. He didn't look bloated or falling apart either. I didn't see any red sores, marks, white spots, missing scales, fungus, or anything out of the ordinary when I examined his body.

I tested the water and then did a 50% water change.

The results are:

Ph : 6.4
Ammonia: 0 or 0.25 ppm. At first look it seems to read 0 on the chart. But when I held it on a different angle, it looks slightly greenish(which is indicative of 0.25) I'm gonna go on the worse case scenario and assume ammonia. Maybe cause of the dead decaying betta?
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Temp: 80 F

I took pics of all the readings and tried to post them on here but the Manage Attachments window doesnt seem to be working for me. Is anyone else having the same problem with posting pics? When I click Manage Attachments, the window pops up but it is a blank window and I can't add files or see anything in it.

Now, I'm at a loss since I still have an Otto and Kuli Loach in the tank and don't want them to end up the same way as the betta. I still don't know what killed the betta. I guess I'll keep testing the water daily and doing W/C.
 

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Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
0
0
Yelm, WA
#14
IMO bettas are fairly hearty. So many live in small bowls or vases and few people test that water. I am not saying this is good, its just an observation plus that is how I managed my first betta until I knew better. Betta are really kind of man made fish and therefore can have congenital things that could cause their early demise. Although I don't think the temperature caused his death, I found my bettas are more active when they were in a heated tank than in a bowl at room temperature.
 

Arch345

Small Fish
Apr 29, 2013
13
0
0
#15
IMO bettas are fairly hearty. So many live in small bowls or vases and few people test that water. I am not saying this is good, its just an observation plus that is how I managed my first betta until I knew better. Betta are really kind of man made fish and therefore can have congenital things that could cause their early demise. Although I don't think the temperature caused his death, I found my bettas are more active when they were in a heated tank than in a bowl at room temperature.
I totally agree with you Thyra. I've had Bettas before and they are survivors. Which is why I'm so surprised that this one died within 3 weeks. Maybe I shouldn't buy from Petland Discounts anymore..

What's surprising is that my Ottocinlus seems to be doing fine. In my experience, ottos are pretty fragile and first to die when something is wrong with the water.

I still don't know what killed off my betta..