Help! Gourami Turned Black!

#1
Hey everyone,

This is my first post on here.

Last night my orange Dwarf Gourami was fine, eating, swimming around happily and then I looked tonight, he's turned black over his head and down half of his body on both sides and has a patch of white fluffy stuff on his head - guessing it's fungus. He's sick as he isn't eating, and half the time he's laying down on his side and breathing hard. His scales look fine and he isn't bloated. He's currently sitting in a cup as I thought if he's left too long in my main tank he will -if he already hasn't - make the other fish sick.

He lives in a 20 litre tank with three other Dwarf Gouramis, a baby Angel Fish, a female Fighting Fish, a female Platy and nine baby Platies in a floating tank. The other Gouramis look fine and are eating, though two of them have seemed to be sluggish for a while now.

I did have high ammonia, it was 8 and I've gotten it down to 0 in about three days doing 50% water changes daily until it was down and used Stress Zyme+ after each change and just replaced what I took out each time. I also had high nitrate at I think, 5 and now it's also 0. The tank temp ranges from 26 to 29.

I've had a few issues with this tank before in the past. Originally it was used as a hospital tank for an axolotl with white spot and it kept coming back on him. After that the tank was left to sit for about a month or five weeks when I got two other Gouramis and then about a week later I got this Gourami and another, along with two Platies and the Angel Fish. The first night I had them, I noticed a Gourami had a white spot and then I treated that and it cleared up. While treating the white spot, I noticed flat patches of white come over my female Platy. They seemed to come and go, usually come back whenever I did a water change or added more fish. I treated that with Tri-Solfa also.

A few weeks later I got two female fighting fish, and bought white spot, fungus and fin rot home by accident as I didn't get the right female fighting fish I asked for, and hadn't noticed it in the tank. The next day she had died. I had treated the tank with Tri-solfa and none of the other fish got it thankfully. About two weeks later, without adding anymore fish, I noticed my male Platy was sluggish and had the white patches on him, over his head. I thought maybe he was just stressed, as at times he would be alright, swim around and eat and then he wouldn't bother at all. One night I turned off the light and noticed his scales were risen, thinking it was TB, I got him out and had to put him to sleep as I have never been able to save any fish with it in the past and only seen it spread through the tank. :'(

And after all that, now this has happened to my Gourami, without adding anymore fish or anything. I had the high ammonia and nitrate about a week or so ago. I am wondering if the treatments are only cleaning up the tank and not the filter as the filter isn't that strong, and the same issues are coming back after a while. I'm wanting to move them to a 34 Litre tank as I think this one is also too small for the amount of fish I have in it. The white patches are still on my female Platy, though she is perfectly fine.

Please, can someone help me!
 

KcMopar

Superstar Fish
#2
You need at least a 10 gallon tank for one Dwarf Gourami so you would need a 38 liter tank for just one. IMO you are killing your fish from just having to many in a small tank. It not a healthy environment and the bad toxins build up very fast and poison your fish to death.
 

lauraf

Superstar Fish
Jan 1, 2010
2,181
0
0
Vancouver, British Columbia
#3
I agree with KcMopar. You have way too many fish in your tank. (Any tank that has occasional ammonia problems is uncycled, overstocked or overfed IMO.) You must do daily water changes to support the fish you have right now and rehome some of them or get a larger tank ASAP. Otherwise I'm afraid your problems will continue. Let us know what you decide to do.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#4
One night I turned off the light and noticed his scales were risen, thinking it was TB, I got him out and had to put him to sleep as I have never been able to save any fish with it in the past and only seen it spread through the tank. :'(
Fish TB (Mycobacterium marinum) normally does not manifest itself with raised scales, but missing scales. The symptoms sound more like what is commonly called 'Dropsy.'

I agree with the other responses so far; too many fish in too small of a container. A reading of 8ppm ammonia will have damanged the gills of all the fish in the tank and make them more prone disease.

The best advice would be to upgrade the aquarium to a much larger tank. Also, it is not uncommon for gourami to not get along with their own kind, so they are best kept without other gourami.
 

#5
Well, I'm currently doing water changes every second day to keep the ammonia at 0, and keep the friendly bacteria going in the tank. I cannot buy a 38 litre tank currently, but I will look at it in the near future. The only tank I have right now that is bigger, is an axolotl tank that is currently getting used.

My Gouramis don't really get along, but they're not constantly fighting either. They only seem to get a few strips out of their fins and the od tiny nip, but nothing serious or they wouldn't be together. I think they're all males, as they aren't a faded colour.

What would be a good tank size for my three Gouramis, one Angel Fish, female Betta, female Platy and in the near future about ten Guppies?

Sadly my Gourami didn't make it last night. He was quiet when I first got him and he was quiet big. I'm thinking he may have been old also.

Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#6
My Gouramis don't really get along, but they're not constantly fighting either. They only seem to get a few strips out of their fins and the od tiny nip, but nothing serious or they wouldn't be together.
Gourami or Dwarf Gourami (you've called them both) are territorial fish. They do not have room in only 20 liters of water to establish their own territory. The fin and scale nipping is just the physical manifestation of trying to establish their own territory. They are in constant stress in trying to drive the 'others' away from 'home' and being unable to do so.

What would be a good tank size for my three Gouramis, one Angel Fish, female Betta, female Platy and in the near future about ten Guppies?
I have no way to answer this, as the fish are not compatable in my experience.

Sadly my Gourami didn't make it last night.
I'm sorry for your loss.
 

Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
0
0
Yelm, WA
#7
Why don't you give aquadvisor.com a try and find out what fish are compatible and the size tank you need? Even a 34 L tank does not come close to having enough room for the fish you have - in fact all you could really keep in it are a few of the guppies. You actually need at least a 113 L tank and even then I doubt that you can keep the gouramis together and I am not sure whether an angel and a gourami are compatabile, but I am pretty sure either one will eat any fry they can find.
 

lauraf

Superstar Fish
Jan 1, 2010
2,181
0
0
Vancouver, British Columbia
#8
It's not so much the angel and the gourami together - it's the multiple gouramis together. However, the other problem is way too many fish in the tank. You must rehome some of them immediately. They are dying in the conditions they are in currently, and I'm sure you want what's best for the fish.
 

#10
Why don't you give aquadvisor.com a try and find out what fish are compatible and the size tank you need? Even a 34 L tank does not come close to having enough room for the fish you have - in fact all you could really keep in it are a few of the guppies. You actually need at least a 113 L tank and even then I doubt that you can keep the gouramis together and I am not sure whether an angel and a gourami are compatabile, but I am pretty sure either one will eat any fry they can find.
Thank you for that. I usually just go by what the pet shop tells me to put in my tank. They told me not to mix fish like barbs with the gouramis at least. I know they usually just tell you anything and everything to sell their stock.

Gourami or Dwarf Gourami (you've called them both) are territorial fish. They do not have room in only 20 liters of water to establish their own territory. The fin and scale nipping is just the physical manifestation of trying to establish their own territory. They are in constant stress in trying to drive the 'others' away from 'home' and being unable to do so.*
I've only got the one type of Gourami, the Dwarf, I'm just used to hearing so many people say Gourami referring to the Dwarf, so I do the same without thinking.

It's not so much the angel and the gourami together - it's the multiple gouramis together. However, the other problem is way too many fish in the tank. You must rehome some of them immediately. They are dying in the conditions they are in currently, and I'm sure you want what's best for the fish.
Yes I do. How many fish would I have to rehome? Obviously two of the three Gouramis. . .

My Angel, Fighting Fish and Gouramis leave each other alone completely. Same with my Platy. They're quiet funny to watch actually. At feeding time my fighter and Angel Fish will be going after the same pellet and suddenly stop as they're both about to crash into each other, they'll look at each other and miss the pellet completely to another fish and go after other pellets without a problem.
 

Last edited:

lauraf

Superstar Fish
Jan 1, 2010
2,181
0
0
Vancouver, British Columbia
#11
Yes I do. How many fish would I have to rehome? Obviously two of the three Gouramis. . .
Hi. You have a pretty small tank. IMO it has room for few platies, maybe the betta too. Everyone else needs a substantially bigger tank or to go back to the fish store or be given to a friend. Gouramis are a fair sized fish, even the so called 'dwarf' variety and I'd suggest at least 10g for one. Angels get really large, and you have to take into account their trailing finnage. If you want to keep angels beyond a few months of age, you need at least a 25g tank, preferably more like a 40g, which is 160 liters or something around there.... We really have to give our fish enough room, as well as pristine water conditions...
 

#12
Thanks for your help. :) I was talking to my mother about it and saying if it came down to it, I'd just keep my Angel Fish and my female Fighting Fish, she said both of them should be fine in a 9 litre Betta tank, which I didn't agree with at the time, and now reading you're advice I really see that wouldn't work at all, even with the size my Angel Fish is at right now - about the size of a baby's palm. Thank you for your time and help.

Also sorry for the late reply, been busy with work.