Gourami's Mysterious Death

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#1
Hello there, I am also a newbie to the site ^^;


THE BACKGROUND:
I recently bought myself a lovely 29 gallon fish tank pack with stand and all. I bought some rather expensive gravle substrate from Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums that came with a pre-existing bactaria culture, water clerifier and all that good stuff (package arrived in the mail (two 20 pound bags). The bags there thick with my gravle inside and the liquid which also kept the bacteria culture kicking.

I had my tank set up for about two weeks just be be safe (the instructions on the bag said that one bag (of the two I had) would treat up to 20 gallons, so i used a bag and a half to make 30 pounds of gravle, enough to treat my 29 gallon, you could set up your tank, wait 24 hours and it would be set for fish. Like I said I waited the aditional time. I ensured my water had a Ph of 7.0-7.2 (My dad insisted I only needed a Ph kit, i wanted the master kit for 39.99 which had nitrite, nitrate, amonia and all that jazz).

I bought a Gold Gourami, your general Pleco, and a tire track eel (Whom will be moved to a large tank once the fellah has grown up, he is currently about 4 cm).

The tank the gourami came from was just a glass tank, no gravle or decorations, and was what I would call very crowded, with at least 20 fish in what I would guess is a 10- 15 gallon. The tank also had at least three dead fish in it. The pleco came from the same tank but I noticed the plecos must have been hungry because they would try and chase down the Gouramis and suck on them, which I've read they will do if they are VERY hungry. The gourami's eyes were VERY red, but I assumed that was the way they looked.

THE PROBLEM:
Thursday:
The problem started the day after I got the Gourami home. I introduced him to the tank using the float method, I left his bag floating for roughly 20-30 mins so the water would be the same, I then cut the bag, poured most of the water down the drain, then slipped the gourami into the tank (as I didn't want that overcrowded water in my tank).

Friday:
I went to bed and the next day I noticed the gourami was sitting on the bottom in the right hand back corner staring the corner. I have a large 12" bubble want against the back wall of my tank. If I turned on the light and the bubbles, the gourami would perk up it seemed and loved going back and forth through the bubble as it created a sort of current he really enjoyed. Turned off the lights and bubble wand and he's right back in the corner.

Saturday: Same as before, sulking in the corner, but perked up with lights and the bubbles, did a 25% water change to see if for some reason my water quality was bad. (perfectly clear water, no bad smell, I vacumed the gravle and maybe about nine poops that I managed to suck up from my three new fish). Turned off light and bubble wand, went to bed.

Sunday:

Woke up early because I was worried about my gourami's odd behavior and I was horrified to see his left eye bulging out! I went straight for my computer to look up 'pop-eye' a fish disorder. I'm pretty sure that's what it was. He was sittig in his old corner as usual, up until Saturday he had been eating but now he seemed to refuse it or simply coulding see it. We left him in the tank for about half the day then I got worried about the other fish and removed the gourami into his own mini-tank. Tried to feed him, nothing. My fiance who was helping me with him then notice a 'fuzz' that had developped on one of the gourami's feeler type things (sorry I don't know the term). The fuzz was not there before and had just recently developed over the past half and hour it seemed, also on the left side. In adition to that we then as he was in a small tank and we could see him much better, he had fin rot on the left side also. He seemed like he was really trying, moving around here and there, still rather lively for a fish that seemed to have almost ever fish disease known! I was horrified! He died this evening (still sunday, easter actually...)

I can't imagine my tank water is bad, it's fresh, I even did a 25% water change when the water wasn't even dirty, I just wanted to be safe. My PH has been a constant 7.0 and the temp has been a constant 76.

I don't fee as though the fish was stressed, he took well to my tank, he didn't have his fins camped to his body even near death, they were out and flapping.

He ate well the other two days, I fed him a small amount of special gourami flakes once in the morning and once in the evening. (I remove all uneaten food from all my fish such as mushy placo disk and soggy shrimp pellet for my eel).

What happened? I feel so terrible, I want to care for fish, not kill them!
Could this have been a pre-existing problem from the terrible conditions he was in at the petstore with so many other fish?? I'm going to take poor Finnigan's body back to the store (gourami's name is Finnigan).

I just want to know why T-T Even though I had him for so little time, I really adored him and loved to watch him play in the bubbles, I'm very upset about his untimely demise.

(also once again, I only have the Ph test, I cannot provide you with any other tank info aside from the 76 temp. All I can say is that my pleco and eel are perfectly fine, no signs at all of stress or illness, both are eating well, onyl the gourami got so terribly ill)


Thanks for any help or advice (aside from buying the rest of the test kits, I'm buying them right away tomarrow with some medications I can have on hand in case anything this terrible happens again. Big problem is this happened on easter, no stores were open!!)
 

Sharkee

Large Fish
Jan 29, 2010
108
0
0
#2
I'm sorry to hear about your gourami. It may not have been your tank. As you have said, there were already three dead fishes in the tank where you got him from. Most likely, he was already sick even before you got him. As a rule, I don't take anything from a tank that has deceased and/or fish(s) that has visible diseases or not really acting as it should be. Test kits are really essential. It's the only way for you to know where your tank should be. It's a good thing that you're getting it. Monitoring your PH is well and good but usually fishes are okay with any PH as long as it is constant and not constantly fluctuating. Btw, your pleco, if it's a common pleco, will also outgrow your tank. They grow to about 24 inches.
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#3
Thanks for a reply! I was worried my post was too big and thus make people not want to read all of it (understandable).

I really hope it wasn't my tank, I would just feel awful, I'm heading to petco today to pick up the othertests as well as have them test my water before I go back to the store where I bought the gourami as they require a water sample also for any returns, I don't trust them much and thus I want another opinion before I go and falt out agree with whatever they say.

As for my Pleco, yeah I used to have a little 10 gallon and my mom and dad got me a pleco for it, we had a problem about two year in where I changed the water but there was a warning out on it's quality (I live in a farming valley and heavy rains cause VERY bad water in the large river) but I never got the mesage and ALL my fish died but the pleco whom was at this point FAR too big for my net and I had to grab him with my hands (Ouch! they are spikey little tanks! I was about 11 at this point).

But I realise the pleco may get too big ^^ I know someone who'll take both my eel (as he'll for sure out grow my tank) and my pleco once they no longer fit. But good news is they are both perfectly healthy!
 

bassbonediva

Superstar Fish
Oct 15, 2009
2,010
0
0
Northern Arizona
#4
I agree with Sharkee. It sounds like the issue was the place you got the gourami (or the gourami itself), not your tank. Let us know what your parameters are once you get your test kit (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). I have an opaline gourami in my son's 29gal tank (wanted a neon blue dwarf gourami, but this guy was just too pretty to pass up) and he is a fiesty little fella. He keeps his six tiger barb tank mates in line.

Also, just because the pleco and eel *look* to be in good health doesn't necessarily mean that they *are* in good health. I've had fish that were apparently healthy and hale die on me for no apparent reason and my water parameters were perfect at the time of the fish deaths.
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#6
Well Today I went out to petco and purchased some more larger plastic plants for coverage so the fish can hide better, some aquarium salt, a bottle of Maracyn-oxy in case any fish get sick I'll have meds on hand to treat the poor darlings and a new Blue gourami (my old was a gold gourami, same thing just golden colour). the new blue is VERY happy it seems and the only thing I see is a possible tiny rip in the tail fin from the task of being chased around the tank and then sitting in the bag for nearly two hours (poor fellah) but it doesn't appear to be fin rot, looks like a small clean rip, no other fins are hurt. He is currently exploring.

My water test from Petco stated my water was absolutely perfect, all at zero and my Ph was exactly as I had wanted it, a dead flat 7.0, no wiggle room.

I'm really hoping this gourami does better, I really enjoy them a lot and hope this guy like my bubble wand as much as Finnigan did (we kept his body and burried him in the flower garden). The store I bought the gourami from grudgingly admited it was most likely their fault, and when I went back to lok as the tank where the fish had come from, there were two more dead gouramis in there.
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#7
Oops! Sorry little tank i was so excited about my new fish i forgot to add a reply to you also!

Yeah the pleco and the eel are very small right now, I'd say the pleco is maybe half an inch, and the eel is probably one and a half. tiny guys comparable.

As I stated before, I used to have a 15 gallon and had a pleco in there for a long while before he finally got much too big and I gave him away to my cousins whom had about 9 massive 75 gallons all thoughout their house. I had the placo for about 3-4 years before we rehomed him, he didn;t seem to surpass 4 inchs until the last year when he grew a ton to about 7 inches and he HAD to get a bigger home, poor guy, I named him fluffy as when they wiggle their fin fluff up (I was like...8 when i named him XDD)
 

Sharkee

Large Fish
Jan 29, 2010
108
0
0
#8
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's not actually a good thing that your nitrate is zero. This signifies that your tank hasn't been cycled. If I'm correct you will see an ammonia spike soon. Check your parameters constantly and don't add anymore fishes.
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#9
oh, XD I just assumed that would mean zero as they didn't actually show me thestrips, and I'm doing my own test with my new kits starting thursday (a week from when fish were introduced).
But I did cycle and both stores said my water conditions were "perfect" and there is no apparent reason why my poor gourami should have suddenly caught ever known fish diseas all at once o_O;

My new gourami is doing just fine, I was concerned when I turned off the llights and he sank down to the bottom, not actually sitting on the gravle but hovering just above. I assume this is how they sleep? He is just fine this morning and I've looked over all my fish for any sings of fungus or odd bahavior. Nothing...well aside from my eel whom i can't find right now ^^;
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#10
OOp, I meant to ask, I usually remove all uneaten food from my tank whitin about an hour of it not being eat (such a shrip pellets and the algea disk after two hours -I drop another one in at night then remove the bits in the morning).

Is this a good thing? I do have my eel who sneaks about under the gravle and I'm hoping he is eating some bits at night such as the shrip pellet and possible leftovers he may find in the gravle). Might I be starving him if I keep cleaning out uneaten food?
 

bassbonediva

Superstar Fish
Oct 15, 2009
2,010
0
0
Northern Arizona
#11
I would make sure your eel eats at least one pellet before removing any uneaten food from the tank. As you said, you don't want him to starve.

And yes, that's how gouramis sleep. At least my opaline sleeps that way. The tiger barbs all sleep in the bushy sword plant, but the gourami will just sink down to the sand at night.
 

Sharkee

Large Fish
Jan 29, 2010
108
0
0
#12
agreed. gouramis sleep like that. my gold gourami does that all the time. as for your lfs saying your water is perfect, always remember they're there to sell. I got sold 4 XL ranchus and 2 fancytails for my 10 gallon fishbowl when I was a newbie. guess what happened to them.:( always do your own testings on don't rely on strips. they're not that reliable and besides it's much more fun to use the test tubes lol.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#13
But I did cycle and both stores said my water conditions were "perfect"
How did you cycle the tank?

Until you get your own test kits, get the stores to write down the actual numbers for your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. There is no 'perfect' on the test result chart. Only if you know the numbers will you know if your tank has completed the nitrogen cycle.

Having the actual readings makes it easier to make your own decision on what, if anything, to do about the water parameters.

Keep in mind that the fish store sales agent wants to sell you fish, equipment, and supplies. It is not in their best financial interest to tell you to come back next week to buy something.
 

lauraf

Superstar Fish
Jan 1, 2010
2,181
0
0
Vancouver, British Columbia
#14
Agreed. "Perfect" means nothing. And you should have a reading of some nitrate if your tank is actually cycled. Even though the product you initially bought said it would cycle the tank for you, it may be a bit of a gimmick. If you have your new test kits, do your own reading right now for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and let us know what they say. If you haven't cycled properly (we'll be able to tell you that based on the readings) then you may be stuck doing a fish-in cycle. Your fish might still make it through the process, but you will need to be daily vigilant about testing and doing partial water changes until the cycle has established.
So let us know what the readings are, and the experts here (I'm not one of them, tho ;) ) will help you through this.
And BTW, your tank may indeed be cycled and your gourami was just a very, very sick fish. But to not risk your other fish, we'd best confirm if your tank is cycled or not.
You've come to a great place to ask these questions!
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#15
Thanks for all the info guys! When the girl at the store said my water was 'perfect' she actually had nothing to gain by it, the petco near me does free water samples and for all she knew I could have waltzed in, got my free water check and left, but I told her my situation and when she stated perfect perhapse she meant there was no way the poor gourami's death was my fault.

My testing shows tht my temp is 76
Ph: Steady 7.0
Nirtrite: Appears to be 0 but might be slightly higher
Nitrate: seems about 10ppm (that's the correct measuring right? T-T)
Amonia: appears to be just above zero

I'm also doing a 25% water change today to suck up some loose 'poops' i am seeing floating about.


Also I saw my eel the other day (finally came out) he looks as he should, round, not ribbon-like, no sores, fins all fine. I'm very happy! I haven't seen him for days!



Also I know this is off topic (as some of my posts are) But does anyone know of a good heater for a 30 gallon?
I'm using an Aqueon heater and while it keeps the water tempurature correct (after guess where to turn the dial as there are NO numbers to indicate temperature)
The heater turns off once the right temperature is reached then turns back on (does this constantly), the problem is when it's on ot makesa VERY loud ticking noise, so loud that when I place my hand on my aquarium it's actually vibrating at every tick! I can't sleep at night either, I had to sleep on the couch XD

Anyone know of a reliable ( not TOO expensive as I STILL don't have a job T-T) heater that will not tick, or buzz or make any sort of noise yet still get the job done??

Once again I adore this site and thank you everyone for your help! <333
 

ValRasbora

Superstar Fish
May 2, 2009
1,202
0
0
Atlantic Canada
#16
for heaters I use this in my 20 gal : Product Catalog
I don't like it too much but it gets the job done, you can't adjust the temp. so that's a big downside, but it shouldn't be too too much problem as long as you have a thermometer, which you can buy for $2.
For my 10gal, I use something like this: Visi-Therm Deluxe Submersible Heaters | Aquarium Heaters | Fish Tank Heaters | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com
It's a good lil heater, I've had one or two break on me though (no fish died or anything, they just broke and I had to buy a new one) so be careful when you use them. Also, the suction cups on mine are not very good but that's just a minor problem. You can adjust the temp. and everything on this one, but you still need a thermometer.

^^each of these cost me about $15.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#17
My testing shows tht my temp is 76
Ph: Steady 7.0
Nirtrite: Appears to be 0 but might be slightly higher
Nitrate: seems about 10ppm (that's the correct measuring right? T-T)
Amonia: appears to be just above zero

Not sure what 'steady 7.0' means. pH is non that important unless you are breeding specific fish that need it at a specific level. Fish are far healthier with a stable aquarium.

Ammonia an nitrite should be zero if the tank has been cycled. Nitrates up to 20 is usually ok. If any of those numbers are above, time for a water change!
 

Mikael616

Small Fish
Apr 4, 2010
23
0
0
MA
#18
Thanks for all the info guys! my fish are doing lovely and my blue gourami (Still needs a name) is lovely, vibrant! I have a new issue but this is the wrong board for it! -waves- TY again for all the help <3