Aquarium filled with softened water from a water softner

[Matt Nace]

Hi everyone,

I did a lot of research on using softened water in an aquarium. We have rock hard water here in this part of Pa. We had to go this route as we went through 2 dishwashers in 3 years and most of the faucets were becoming no good.

We curently use the basic Morton salt. No pellets and it is the Sodium chloride(blue bag). I am looking into switching to either pellets or potasium chloride salt, but have to see if my system will be able to use it.Plus the potasium is a lot more..but it would actually help the planted tank out.

I have to state, that my tank and the fish in it are as normal. I read a lot of forums and so many posters said they use the faucet to the outside of the house(in the winter also) which is before the softened water because of the sodium chloride would be harmful to the aquarium Fish and plants. I felt after reading about it that the amount of salt in not that much put into the water. I read if you drink the required water per day, the salt in the water would be 3% of your total allowance.

I recently have started a 10 gallon planted. I read also that this water was not good for plants. Again, I am seeing no negative results so far.

I just thought I would state this as I am not sure if anyone else ever had a question about using softened water in your aquarium.

 

[ishar]

I also use soft water during the summer (when I am not in my student home) and I noticed no ill effects. I believe the salt used is potassium chloride for me, and as I said I did not notice any ill effects to my plants.

I did have a few stems of Rotala macranda (the really red stuff) melt away on me but I do not know the cause of this. I think it had to do with me not having CO2 at the time but I do not know.

 

[wondabread]

I am not a water softener expert by any means, so take this with a grain of salt.

I don't know the different kinds of softeners that are used, but I do know that newer water softeners add the sodium to the water in order to remove the calcium/phosphorus/lime/hard water - whatever you want to call it. After it is mixed with the water and does its "magic", it then is taken out.

My original misconception, thus the reason we do NOT use a softener, is that softeners add the salt/sodium to the water to counteract the hardness without removing it after the chemical reaction takes place.

I have an instantaneous water heater that gets lime build-up every 3 months requiring a cleaning, which led me to look into getting a water softener, since salt is way cheaper than a repair bill for a $2000 water heater ever few months.

I was told that the salt is removed from the water after it is softened. I don't know if this is true or not, but the guy doing the research/work for it has been doing repairs and HVAC work for my family for over 40 years.

Our tap water has well over 200ppm Ca(or whatever makes it hard) and a pH of 8.0 straight out of the faucet.

 

[Chris_A]

OK, so the process goes like this... There is an ion exchange resin in a tank... this stuff removes the water hardening minerals. Then on a regular basis the resin is flushed with extremely concentrated salt water from the salt holding tank. This helps recharge the resin.

If you test water from a softener the sodium is through the roof (unless you use one of the Potassium ones, then THAT is through the roof). Now for some fish this isn't a problem, for example Central American and RLA species. These species have a very effecient mineral export system (think like peeing only through the skin lol) because they regularly come from areas with extreme mineral content. Heck some even come from Soda Lakes where the water is so hard I'm sure a water gun could be considered a deadly weapon . On the other hand... lots of fish come from areas of extremely LOW mineral content water. These fish do not have a good way of exporting the minerals in their body and it can actually build up in the skin forming granuals, it can almost look like "pimples".

Now, is this common? No... I've only seen it first hand a couple of times...
I have no idea at what level the minerals become a problem, and I have no idea if some minerals are worse than others. Also I have no idea how long of exposure is needed before you see a problem.

Also, Sodium is a fairly reactive element. I have seen first hand the effects of exceptionally high levels, the fish's slime coat can be burned and start peeling fairly easily...

I do know this... if you have exceptionally hard water and want it softer for your fish... cutting your tap water with some percentage of RO is a FAR better way to go...

Chris

 

[wondabread]

I do know this... if you have exceptionally hard water and want it softer for your fish... cutting your tap water with some percentage of RO is a FAR better way to go...

Chris

This is what I do for my fishies. The way your described it is exactly (without specifics) how I thought it worked.

I am going to ask my installer more about this, because he said to me that the sodium in the softener I would be getting is removed after the reaction happens.

 

[Chris_A]

I am going to ask my installer more about this, because he said to me that the sodium in the softener I would be getting is removed after the reaction happens.

From my understanding the theory is it exchanges the sodium for a different cation (if I remember correctly it's a cation... other wise it's an anion (sp?)) there by putting the sodium into the tap water. Some models may have an extra stage to remove the sodium but I'm not aware of any... That would be a big improvement though!

Now what he might mean is that the *salt* (NaCl as opposed to simply Na+) won't get into the tap water (if everything is operating correctly anyway) because the concentrated salted water goes down the drain with the resin rinse.

Now, small disclaimer here... I haven't actually taken a GOOD look at water softener technology in quite a few years. Things might have changed... I kinda doubt the basic principal is any different though. You still need to exchange one ion for another and then do something with it after.

Chris

 

[Matt Nace]

Iw a sunder the impression that the sodium stay in the water..it is just exchanged with the calcium and magnesium. The total hardness of the water is the same. It just has sodium instead of calcium.

My post was regarding the use of the water. I am not looking to reduce my hardness. My post was my observation as to wheather or not the fish are effected by the sodium instead of the calcium.

As a background..I ahve never changed my water chemistry to anything. I always kept all my fish and plants in my liquid rock water..PH7.8-8 and hardess is not even on the chart..is maxed on the test kit charts.

So far..there have been no ill results keeping CA cichlids(and an african) and in my other tank I have neons, cories and ottos. I am also keeping plants to see how they are effected.

So again..my observations so far is to let everyone know that so far I see no ill results from keeping fish in water treated with sodium chloride through ion exchange.

If I start seeing anything odd and find out it is from the salt then I will state thisbecause this is a question I had before I got the softner.I dont think the water is concentrated at all after it comes from the tank..or I would not be able to even drink it.

Thanks for the replies.

Will update the thread periodically on any results I see..

 

[Matt Nace]

An update to this post for anyone who ever has to get a water softner and keeps Aquarium fish.

Tank is been setup for a little over 5 monthes now. All Fish are healthy and appear to have no ill effects from my water. I use 100% softened water through a water softner that exchanges the calciums with sodiums. The total hardness is still "hard water" and not soft as it still contains disolved minerals.

I also kept a 10 g planted tank with neons and cories and they were fine also. The plants I kept were rather hardy ones(micro sword, bacopa, hairgrass, some crypts and Java moss) and all were fine.

I am not certain if some loaches or sodium sensative fish would be effected.

I just find it crazy that there are people out there in the winter getting water from the garden hose(usually the system is placed after your outside water outlet), heating it and then putting it in the aquarium because they read that the softner water is not good for any fish you keep.

 

[1077]

When someone can prove absolutely that sodium salt does not affect osmoregulation of fishes in general ,as opposed to a few, then perhaps I might risk it. Can't help but think everyones water is different and thus effects would be different in proportion. If they were safe,,(some companies don't recommend use with tropical fish) then everyone would use them as opposed to R/O systems. Just my two cents.

 

[Matt Nace]

When someone can prove absolutely that sodium salt does not affect osmoregulation of fishes in general ,as opposed to a few, then perhaps I might risk it. Can't help but think everyones water is different and thus effects would be different in proportion. If they were safe,,(some companies don't recommend use with tropical fish) then everyone would use them as opposed to R/O systems. Just my two cents.

The water softner does not make your water less hard like an R/o unit would. The R/o actually removes the Total disolved solids. So no..not everyone would use them in place of r/o water In my opinion.

If I want truly soft water containing less disolved solids, I would have to use water that is less hard or the solids removed through Reverse Osmosis and mix it with mine for desired hardness.

The Morton brand I use explain also that the water still has the same total disolved solids in it. They also say to properly acclimate your fish as anyone should.

Everyone's water is different. but when I searched for anyone who ever used a softner for aquarium fish there was not much info out there.

Freshwater is less than 1000mg/liter.(disolved salts)
Brackish is anywhere after 1000mg/liter up to 25000mg/l

Acceptable drinking water is anywhere up to 1200mg/l depending on location .After 1200mg that it can cause unwanted effects and taste.

The output of typical water using Mortons salt is estismated according to their web site at 118mg/l

So it is not like it is brackish water being used in most cases.I think the osmoregulation of the fish would still be that of freshwater.

I also cant say I am an expert on salinity and salts and osmosis..just my observations that it is not showing any harm on the fish I keep.

 

[1077]

I am no expert either but As one expert explained it to me, Water softeners replace the salts that create lime and scale deposits and also buffer the pH with sodium salts. It is the long term exposure to sodium salts that ultimately cause damage to fishes osmoregulatory functions.
The gentleman who explained this to me holds several Phd's in biology and has written books on the care of fishes both fresh, and saltwater along with a column that appears in a popular tropical fish publication. I wish it weren't possibly harmful in the long term, for it would have made my life much easier in regards to keeping fish healthy.

 

[Matt Nace]

Thank you for sharing that. Not sure what long term is..but I will continue to evaluate my experience and share it as I can.

 

[blue_ram]

The compound used in many water softeners is called Zeolite and this is the same substance they sell in fish stores called Ammo chips, phosorb and other ammonia removal products. Zeolite is "recharged" using regular table salt

Zeolite does not add salt to your water, it adds sodium ions which, in moderation, are beneficial to all life as they assist in the movement of water and nutrients through cell walls. The increased sodium ions in the water increases what is known as the Redox Potential of the water. See How Aquarium Redox Balance, Potential, & Reduction relates to aquatic health

The increased Redox Potential is theorized to provide protection against many pathogenic microorganisms in particular the mysterious HTH in many SA cichlids kept even in pristine conditions.

Very interesting stuff when you consider that oxidation, often seen as rusty metal, is what causes decay and the "ageing" process in life can be reversed or decreased through it's natural counterpart of reduction.

 

[Matt Nace]

The compound used in many water softeners is called Zeolite and this is the same substance they sell in fish stores called Ammo chips, phosorb and other ammonia removal products. Zeolite is "recharged" using regular table salt

Zeolite does not add salt to your water, it adds sodium ions which, in moderation, are beneficial to all life as they assist in the movement of water and nutrients through cell walls. The increased sodium ions in the water increases what is known as the Redox Potential of the water. See How Aquarium Redox Balance, Potential, & Reduction relates to aquatic health

The increased Redox Potential is theorized to provide protection against many pathogenic microorganisms in particular the mysterious HTH in many SA cichlids kept even in pristine conditions.

Very interesting stuff when you consider that oxidation, often seen as rusty metal, is what causes decay and the "ageing" process in life can be reversed or decreased through it's natural counterpart of reduction.

Intresting link. As you said, it states the sodium as well as calcium and magnesium are reducers which is what you want for proper Osmoregulation.

It is important of course to replenish these with water changes as just because your water has a high amount does not mean it is not be oxidized. The more the tank is stocked the more it happens and must replace it.

Thanks for that article..I have not read all of it and probebly need to reread it again.

 

[1077]

If water softner (domestic) depletes calcium and magnesium as they claim to do, How would water changes with said water replenish these minerals?

 

[Matt Nace]

It wouldn't.....Why would you want to replensh the calcium and magnesium?

Back to the original idea...it is my observation and I hope this is helpful to anyone who is looking to use this type of water in the aquarium. So far all is well.

 

[1077]

Intresting link. As you said, it states the sodium as well as calcium and magnesium are reducers which is what you want for proper Osmoregulation.

It is important of course to replenish these with water changes as just because your water has a high amount does not mean it is not be oxidized. The more the tank is stocked the more it happens and must replace it.

Thanks for that article..I have not read all of it and probebly need to reread it again.

Do google.. "the importance of calcium electrolytes,magnesium,and KH in your aquarium"

 

[1077]

It wouldn't.....Why would you want to replensh the calcium and magnesium?

Back to the original idea...it is my observation and I hope this is helpful to anyone who is looking to use this type of water in the aquarium. So far all is well.

The minerals mentioned,are essential for osmoregulatory functions as well as buffering the water in my view,and as you noted in previous post,, would need to be replaced.
You report that you have rather hard water. Perhaps the depletion of the minerals removed through the use of domestic water softener would not be as detrimental.
I wish you luck with your expieriment although personally,, I would perform expieriments on one fish, rather than many. I also might have reservations about mentioning possible use of this water as only water in the aquarium until after said expieriment was concluded. As mentioned,everyones water is different and thus,results in my view would be mixed.
Good Luck to you.

 

[ampnave]

i just came upon this site today. Although this guy wrote back in 09, i'm now just having the same question. I am using water in my tanks coming from a water softener. Just found out recently after reading from a site called AMERICAN AQUARIUM PRODUCTS. This guy is smart! he has done a lot of testing and now i'm beside myself, as he says, NEVER use softwater in your tanks. Then goes onto explain why. A guy wrote here in the forum almost word for word.
I thought if i changed over to potassium, (which someone mentioned) that would be better. I was heading to home depot today to get some. According to the guy on this site, it's worse with potassium. Now i'm pretty bummed. I don't know what to do. From all i read, it shortens the lives of our fish. I have all angels. My plants look ok, they have some dead leaves, not completely thriving, but not too bad. Geez, how the heck, short of replumbing the whole house so i can have warm water to match the water i took out can i do this. Our water is hard and we really need the soft water to keep everything from turning white with calcium. At the same time, i don't want to put thousands into the tanks i have and shorten the lives of the fish i love. We have one of those constant water heaters, so i am able to clean all five tanks and never run low on warm water. If i got a new hot water heater, $$$, hooked it up to a hose outside, ran it through the door, ??? Any other options. I really need some answers on this. Is there a way to correct this without costing an arm and a leg?

 

[digitalride]

i just came upon this site today. Although this guy wrote back in 09, i'm now just having the same question.
...
If i got a new hot water heater, $$$, hooked it up to a hose outside, ran it through the door, ??? Any other options. I really need some answers on this. Is there a way to correct this without costing an arm and a leg?

I know this thread is old but it is a good source of information. I am struggling with the same issue. My best idea yet is to get a small electric water heater, possibly something meant for a camp shower or whirpool tub, and run the cold water through that. A simple 1500w inline heater with garden hose connections would be really nice, you would just have to adjust the flow rate to get your desired temperature.