An LFS Employee Here

[colesea]

Hello all, my name is Cole C. ColeC..get it? Colesea...err, nevermind. Anyway, I've this peeve I've been trying to figure out these past six (or seven, has it been that long?) years I've been in the hobby/business.  Why do you all, professionals and newbies alike, give us LFS employees such flack? Come on, are you really going to let a few bad seeds spoil the good reputations of LFS employees everywhere? Seriously, I sometimes don't understand where you folk get off. Who do you run screaming to when your tank is green? Who do you cry to when you've overfed your fish? Who is your best friend until you think you know everything there is to know about aquatic husbandry, and then who do you blame for every single one of -your- mistakes?  Really? Do LFS employees deserve all that? Not any more than a Gap employee deserves to be blamed because you gained weight and don't fit into last year's fashions.

So I'm out to set the record strait. I'm only one, small wisp of an aquarist with 16,000 gallons of retailer systems under her care. Might be small potatos to some, but it ain't no small feat to attempt to keep it all up to your standards.

So bring it on!

 

[dattack]

Sorry to say but it's a dog eat dog world out there. There are two sides of the story and you have horror stories on both ends.
Here are some guesses why people complain about their LFS.
1.  Dying fish, overstocked fish in horrid conditions in certain chains and even LFS.
2.  Poor advice from the teenager who is there to work and earn part time money.  "Sure you can put 20 neons in with some oscars"
3.  Business oriented owners who would sell at any cost.
4.  Overpriced businesses.
5.  Poor customer service/Condescending owners.

I know it's not the job of a business to have to explain further after a good sale costing hundreds and thousand dollars worth of equipment but once the sale is made, you are viewed as a ATM machine everytime you walk in.  I believe it is in the interest of the LFS's employees to inform and educate the customer as much as possible to form a good seller/buyer relationship but all too often, this is not the case.  I can't expect a young part time employee with relatively no experience to give me advice.  Half of the time, it's poor advice unless I talk to the owners personally.

Customer downfalls.
1.  No research prior to buying a fish/plant.
2.  Overstocking/overfeeding.  "Why are my fishes dying?"
3.  Always wanting to get a better deal which was already a good deal in the first place.
4.  Assuming that fishkeeping is easy to keep and just requires money.

So you have both sides of the coin and it's not going to be a perfect world but given that you are a LFS employee, wouldn't it be something good for you to inform and teach the customers the facts.  I agree that the customers do have to take on their share and research prior to buying.  If you have good customer service, eventually you will have a good business.  People then will trust your advice and decision, rather than bicker you over it.  It's just that a lot of employees don't care because it's a minimum wage paying job and they don't have the time or the patience to deal with it.  The best advice if you are sick of these "attacks" is to find another job because it's not going to change.  New people are always coming in to the hobby and quit prematurely because they didn't ask questions and didn't do any research.  You just going to have to deal with that.  But you can save a few from these mistakes, then more power to you. ;D

And BTW, why do you assume that we are going to flame you?  I am sure a few people on this board work at their LFS too.  THat's why the internet is a powerful tool to learn to educate and inform the newbies.  If you stay on this site and teach, the people all here would love to listen to good advice.
So welcome aboard.

 

[arcab4]

dattack pretty much covered it all. haha. but welcome to the board. there is no flaming here on this site.  ;D

i'm at my lfs so much that i could pretty much work there. fortunately my lfs are really cool and don't mind me giving out advice to newer people. they figure that even if someone buys 20guppies at once to go into a 10gallon tank, that person will get discourage when they all die and leave the hobby even tho the lfs makes alot of money from those 20guppies. but at what cost to them? they realized that it's more profitable in the long run to keep a person in this hobby by giving out good advice even if it'll cost some sales right now.

anyways, i'm pooped from setting up my tank today. off to bed. nite all.  and welcome to the board again. glad to have you aboard.  

 

[colesea]

Thanks for the welcome, both of ya.

Aye, the horror stories definately abound from both sides of the fence, and I know what it is to be stuck in the middle.  For every loyal customer I have (and I love these folk, I really do), there is always one who doesn't want to listen to advice.

I will accept some fall-out that there are LFS employees who just don't know anything about aquariums, and I try to fix my coworkers' mistakes. But usually it's not until the customer has already tried to put twenty guppies in a ten gallon tank. So the customer is already flaming mad by the time they get to me, and I have to try and fix things without calling my coworker an utter idiot and loosing my job (espeically if it happens to be the manager). Trying to educate my cowokers is like shouting in the wind, they just don't care. Some of them know enough to at least tell customers to return when I'm on shift.

But the customers. Ah, my dear customers.  Those that have been loyal to me for the year I've been at my current local are the best folk. They're patient, they listen, they're great to talk to, and there is nothing more I like to do than gab with them. Even if they don't buy anything, their tanks are like my tanks, I helped establish them, I want to know how they're doing.  Most of them we're on first names now, and I know their order before they walk in. Especially my feeder clients, with big oscars, snakeheads and the likes. Those are fun stories to listen to, and people from whom even I learn an awful lot. ;D

But then you always get the folk who want to go cheap, who want something that takes care of itself, who don't want to hear a Bala Shark isn't appropriate even if it is labled a community fish, or who doesn't understand why they can't put four four-inch commets in a ten gallon tank if the rule of thumb is "one fish per gallon."

Here's a story for you.  This one lady was walking around my fish room with a two gallon mini-aquarium kit in her arms. She was quite intent on watching the tennis-ball sized fantails I have in my 75g display tank.  She asked for my help, and pointed to an orange/white telescope. I asked if she intended to place it in the two gallon tank, and she said yes. I then patiently explained why she couldn't keep such a large fish in that tiny tank, showed her the Bettas, and the smaller half-inch fantails I had, some white clouds, offered to set her up with a larger tank, and she said she'd think about it.  She spent two hours watching the goldfish display. Two hours! Then she left.
  The next day she was back. No tank this time. She watched the fish for thirty minutes before asking for help again and pointing to the same telescope she did the day before. I asked her if she had an approprite tank, and said the fish would require at least a 20g to itself. She told me not to worry, her daughter had a tank, it was a big one, and a whole story. Attitude too. Okay, well, guess I have to bag her fish for her. I can't very well refuse to sell her a fish.

That type of crap I have to put up with an awful lot. My own mistakes I don't mind getting flamed for, I tell folk when I don't know something. But people automatically think most LFS employees are morons (hello, I've a degree in aquaculture!) because all the negative stories get told, and not the positive ones. It makes me upset and angry to be assumed to be a moron. I'm glad you folk might be different. *twirlysmiley*
~~Colesea

 

[JWright]

Every LFS employee I've ever met around here (Manlius NY, not the net) is an idiot. I never insult anyone I don't know, and I've never told someone their LFS employee is an idiot.

I have on occasion told them that they have gotten bad advice, but that's only because they have...

I do reccomend people ask their question here rather than at their LFS, for two reasons. More opinions are better than one, and the LFS is trying to sell something (that's not a bad thing, everyone has to eat).

Some of the most knowledgable people I know work at/own LFS's. Those of you who post of some other boards know BJ, he owns a fish shop called PG Tropicals, and is one of the most experienced fish-keepers I know.

So, welcome to the board, and it's a pleaure to meet yet another LFS employee who cares.

Josh

 

[ryanp15]

Cole I totally see your point. When I turn 17 and start driving I want to work at one of my lfs's which isn't real big but it's not really that small either. You know? Well that store is great the people there know everything they're talking about and it's great. But I would also like to work at the petsmart so that I could be like you are, the one who know what they're doing. I know that there are many like you but the fact is most arn't, and I wish that you were duplicated and given to every chain petstore around. Just wanted to say more power to ya and welcome to the board. ;D

 

[colesea]

Ryan, if there is any advice I could give you, work for your LFS not the Petsmart. While it is a great ego boost to run your own joint and know that you have job security because if they do fire you the fish room will go down the drain real quick, thus loosing a whole wad of dough. The stress you'll be dealing with will be discouraging unless you really have a whole lot of motivation (like nearly $1,000 in bills each month).  I've the biggest money making department in the store and one of the top five fish rooms of the region (which probably ain't saying much<G&gt. If it don't look top notch, it don't make buget, and the manager throws a fit at me, then wants me to organize dog beds. Talk about pressure!  Customers in Petsmart are not always the nicest, and are more often the "disposable" pet kind. And trust me, being the only one who knows anything about fish in a big place like Petsmart...the heap of responsiblity is sometimes even overwhelming for me. Like when the manager wants to know why everything is dying and you're trying to explain that having the store at 90 degrees in the winter is screwing with the tank heating system...(one of my systems topped 84 degress with the heater thermostat only set at 74! I'm afraid to lower the thermostat because I don't know how cold the temps get at night with all the heat off and I'm not there to adjust! Talk about an ich nightmare).

If you've got a good relationship with that LFS you're talking about, start talking up working for them now, even if you don't have a car. Impress them with your fish know how. Pester them until they offer you a job to shut you up!  More likely you will find a good mentor to work with rather than being dumped in a fish room and left to figure things out for yourself (which was all the training I recieved. I actually called my systems' company for the manuals since the shop didn't have them on record). Your LFS probably has more expensive fish, which people are less likely to find disposable, and you'll be able to hob-knob with some really cool "professional" hobbiest, probably see and work with a whole lot more interesting fish (I refuse to keep arrowanas at my store because I know my customers are not arrowana folk, but I have enough different varieties of platies to choak on, ugh, that gets boring really quick).

My favorite LFS store (and closest competition) has been begging me to work with them for the longest time. I applied twice there when I was your age, and wasn't hired because I was too inexperienced. Now me and their fish room manager are on first names, and we throw customers each others way, but he knows I can't work for him because I've got school during the day, and they can't offer me the late night hours the chain store can. But we've developed a mutual respect I think (At least, he's really cute and I'm hoping one day I'll get up the nerve to ask him out<G&gt!  Personally, I would rather work for them, I would dedicate myself totally to it because I know I can learn a whole lot more about areas I've yet to immerse, and work with some beautiful creatures there would be no way I'd ever allow in my fish room for sheer fear I wouldn't know how to care for them properly.

Good luck to you, learn all you can, as much as you can, and swallow every book on fish husbandry you can. One I'd like to reccomend is -The Manual of Fish Health- published by Tetra. Read it cover to cover, know it, sleep with it under your pillow at night, if you every wish to make aquatic husbandry your profession.
~~Colesea

 

[tabby360]

how old do you have to be to work at petsmart anyways.

 

[ronrca]

My lfs that I visit every week is the absolute best fish store and Im very grateful that I have found a honest, educated fish store that I can rely on. Sad to say, I can not say the same about Petsmart and other huge stores. Im not saying that they are bad in every case but in my experience in my area they are bad. If it would not be for my lfs, Im not sure if I would be as successful and content about the hobby. Of course, with every hobby, education by the individual is the basis for success.

However, not everyone is lucky as myself and I have visited other lfs's and found the quality and information not as good. What it comes down to is the owners of the store and the education of the hobbists. I dont blame someone for being upset about their lfs sometimes. But of course sometimes that hobbists are misinformed.

 

[colesea]

I don't know how old you'd have to be to work at Petsmart. No do I know how the infrastructure of command is at a place like that.

Usually you have to be at least 15yrs old to work cashier or stock in any retail situation, and have all the working papers from your school in order that give you permission for a 20hr week.  Then if you wanted to work extra hours say, over the summer or during a break, you'll need special permission from the school and your parents.

The company I work for started out that way, but now they won't hire anybody under 18yrs for anything because too many HS students couldn't work overnights, or had so much after-school stuff that they left us short handed all the time. Even then, to hold an animal care specialist position (fish, birds, sm mammals, or reptiles), you still had to be 18yrs or older because it is considered a semi-supervisory position where sometimes you might need to direct your fellow coworkers on maintance or customer service.

Starting out as a stock or cashier at a Petsmart might not be so bad. You may never get a chance to work with fish for a few years, but you can also work your way up through promotions so when you are 18 they'll be more likely to put you in charge of the fish room. Also, having worked for a "pet shop" when applying to other LPS looks good on a resume, even if it was only doing stock. Trust me, you will have to learn all sorts of things like flea management and dog training if you want to work in any position with a Petco/Petsmart. While not directly fish related, you'll get customers who want to know how to cure a dog of pink-eye using a saline eye-wash solution (take the dog to the vet, duh! We ain't going have the antibiotic that you need!). Be prepared for all that type of bs, even for just a stock position. Managers hate it when you go "I dunno" and they have to be bothered to answer a customer question they dunno either.

What can make a Petco/Petsmart fish room (or any of their other animals) look like crap is what I like to call the Everybody/Anybody/Somebody/Nobody syndrome.  It doesn't take a moron to feed, water, or clean animal cages, so Anybody in the store could do it. The manager makes it Everybody's responsiblity, thinking that at least Somebody may show iniative and take it upon themselvse to make sure it gets done. Everybody feels that since Anybody can do it, that Somebody certainly will, so that they don't have to. Therefore, Nobody finally does it, which gets the manager all upset because customers are unhappy with Nobody's job.  

My customers know when I've been away. If they see the tanks looking a bit on the sloppy side because I've been too busy doing stock or customer service, they ask if I've been sick or on vacation, and are genuinely concerned over my well-being (actually, I think they're more concerned over the fish ).  But when I'm not at work, even for my schedualed days off, Nobody even pulls dead from my tanks, much less wipes watermarks, sweeps, or takes the trash out. And those things don't even require putting a hand in a tank at all! *snort* I've got a story for ya all, if you want to hear it. Burned me up, totally did, and I can't believe I'm still working there after it.

~~Colesea

 

[Nativefish Boy]

Sup, hows it goin'. There's may deal, my friend got a job at one of my favorite lfs and so i applied. Didn't get the job.  Then the owner sold it and the two main managers/emploees bought it. I applied again.  Almost got it but didn't.they said they would call me if they needed anyone.  Now they know i work at a pet "shop"( PetsMart ) and they want my vast knowledge there. I would love to work there but my income would go from 100-180 dollars a week down to 30-50 a week. That's not going to work. My insurance isn't that cheap.Any way nice to have ya aboard.C-yall 8)

 

[ryanp15]

I see what your saying cole. I would love to work at the lfs I'm talking about but the people there are so knowledgable and they know everything about their fish one they've had for 6 years and they just sold it to my friend for his 900 gal. SW tank, they kinda specialize in that. They are an awsome store and I hope somday I can get in but well see when the time comes. ;D Thanks for the advice, I can always use some! 8) *thumbsupsmiley*

 

[Lynn]

I don't trash all LPS workers. However the shops I've been to and are discusted by do get a trashing. I have given walmart fish workers a bad rep, because has anyone honestly EVER been to a walmart where there wasnt sick/dead/dyeing fish? If so I gotta see this walmart. One of my best friends owns an excellent LPS. Then I know a 17 year old girl that breeds angelfish, cories, livebearers, and keeps some of the prettiest discus I have ever seen and works in an LPS so no there are good LPS workers and owners. The only problem is the number of good LPS, owners, and workers is getting fewer and fewer and the all mighty dollar is prevailing. I know for a fact that the LPS is a hard business to make it in, and you must sell an absulute shit load of fish, tanks and supplies to make it.

 

[colesea]

Yeah, that's the rub. I would love to have my own fish shop, and I've got a prime location picked out. But I've spoken with one of my Asst. Managers who did have their own shop, that was doing really well too, until the shopping center they were in raised the rent rates. Then they couldn't afford the place on top of all the water and electrical bills. Now he works at the chain, is a poor unhappy camper, but he makes his morgage payments on time, and with four kids (twins on the way) that's what is important to him. I don't blame him. If I were rich, had college all payed for, and let somebody else buy me my car...I'd have my own fish shop, breed Faith-strain bettas,  and be staring at that 135 gallon Caribbean biotype tank right now *dreamy sigh*
~Colesea

 

[Lynn]

That still doesn't justify the stores that intentionally rip the beginner off though. I would personally rather pay 5X the amount for a fish that has been kept in good condition been quarintened at the LPS before being sold and gotten from reputable suppliers than these mass market over bred stores, but thats just my 2cents.

 

[colesea]

I am truely glad you feel that way, but your type of thinking is seriously in the minority. Most people want "cheap" fish. Hell, I try to sell people the $1.99 fantails that I keep in tip-top shape on an independant system espeically designed to make goldfish happy, and the majority of my customers would still rather buy the sickly, crappy looking 25 cent feeders because, well, you know "goldfish don't live that long anyway."  And to top it all off, most of my 25 cent feeders are a good two to three inches in length, and people want to put them in two gallon tanks! Or bowls no less. There is only so much public education I can provide to a person who still insists that they don't want to spend the money on a proper fish or set up without lossing the sale. So I sell the person what they want *shrug* what else am I suppose to do? Refuse to sell to them? *snort* I'm sorry, my paycheck is worth more to me than preventing some stupid moron from killing their fish. I did what I could, I made the suggestion that the $1.99 fantail would be the better buy. I speciffically told them that the feeder wasn't going to be as enjoyable...what more can I do? If you've got suggestions, let me know, because I could use it. I'm at my wits end with morons.

To me, that's not taking advantage of the beginner, that's giving the customer what they want because of course they're always right.  Taking advantage of a beginner is trying to sell them the itty-bitty cute oscar for a ten gallon tank and not telling them it will eat everything and grow huge. Sometimes I ask a person, "what size tank do you have, what type of fish do you have?" before I bag their choices, but many people don't like getting the third degree (oh boy have people given me attitude about that!) then told the fish they want isn't approiate. Again, not sell the fish, or loose my paycheck? Hmm... I do say "Gee, I really don't think this is the fish you want...Now something like this..." and steer the customer away from the six inch gourmi to the platies for their 10g..but 90% of the time they need to hear the whole life history of the gourmi before they decide on the platy, and still...75% of the time after that they want to "give the gourmi a try." I've got lots of other things I need to accomplish during my shift, hand-holding  every customer while they pick out their fish isn't something I can do very often. Espeically on a very, very, very busy day when I've got five other customers rolling their eyes at me because they have to wait to be hand-held in picking their fish. They point, I bag, "Have a nice day" and they go off happy because they got the fish they want, and I go off happy because I get my paycheck on time. Once the fish leave my care, I release all responsiblity for them, their actions, and how the customer cares for them.

I do not sell sick fish. I tell a customer when I think a fish is sick, even if it is only one ich spot, or a torn fin, or whatever. I treat and medicate fish to make them healthy, and if I know it was the health of the fish and not the customer's screw-up that could've killed it, I'm pretty understanding about making an exchange. But I hate being accused of selling "sick" fish when I know for damn certain that fish was healthy when it left the store, and had been living in my care for two weeks or more in prime condition. I don't do that. Again though, I can't be responsible for what my co-workers sell when I'm not there. I could put up a hundred quaritine signs, but that doesn't mean people know how to read.

But hey, if you're going to be my sole customer, I'll put together a fish-store just for you, but don't be suprised if the tetra you want is $500.00
~~Colesea

 

[ChazECJr]

Cole,

You can only do so much to help people.  There's an old saying: "Be wary of giving advice.  The wise don't need it, and fools won't heed it."  Frustrating, but true in my opinion.  

(Anyway, I do appreciate the help you've given me, for what that's worth). *thumbsupsmiley*

Charlie

 

[Lynn]

Thats all that I personally ask, to inform but you cannot make them take the info just as with the net. Maybe its just all the crappy LPS around here, they simply do not give a damn fill the newbie full of shit info and sell them an oscar for a 5G tank along with neons so they keep comeing back for more fish and little bottles of wonder drugs to cure all tank problems. That is what I ment. After my ordeal with a dozen cheap altum angelfish that I got a dozen for what 3 would have cost elsewhere I wish I had gotten the 3.

 

[ryanp15]

Cole just do your best and the smart will head and the dumb just don't need it. No rhyme intended. Just know that there are a handful of people on the net that are supporting you everyday. ;D

 

[colesea]

Thanks folks, I do appriecate knowing that there are folk out there that understand the LFS paradox. Well, I'm top fish department in the district again (which isn't saying much. My bad days look like the other stores bests). Yeah me! And I actually had a customer compliment to my manager about the tanks. Yippee. Sometimes I take those compliments with a grain of salt, I truely don't think people know the differeance between a bad tank and a good tank because they continue to buy fish from bad LFS and tanks and the likes, but eh, I take what I can get since they're few and far between<G>.
Thanks all!
~~Colesea