5 cms discus?

[taybelZ]

I was thinking about getting an order online.... some baby 5 cms discus tho i was wondering how many water changes should i be doing... 1 every 2-3 days? I intend on feeding them beefheart/frozen bloodworms...frozen brine shrimp and pellets. I know i will have to do a water change after i feed this frozen foods. Tho i will most likely feed them pellets and every 2nd day frozen foods (3-4 times a day)... Would this be good for discus of this size...or should i be feeding more frequently and more water changes? I know frozen foods are messy and polute the water but how much do u guys change water on fish this size? Also wat size would u consider them to be "more easy" to care for..
thanks in advance.

 

[ronrca]

Of course it depends on your filteration and size of tank. I would do a water change every second day and feed frequently. Of couse if you feed frequently, remember not to overfeed. I would keep this up until the discus are almost full grown and then start cutting back on the water changes and feeding. If you are doing water changes every second, only change around 10-15%. You do not want to stress them out by changing the chemistry too much. Also try to time your water changes with feeding frozen foods. I think you are on the right track. Keep it up.  *thumbsupsmiley*

I only feed my discus (full grown) frozen beefheart once a week and do a water change once a week. They are healthy and happy. I feed once a day a mixture of flake food. They go nuts with fluke food too. I find that if I 'underfeed' my discus, they are more active than when I was feeding twice a day.  *thumbsup2*

 

[Dinocine]

Young discus eats alot and so does its bowel movement. They are usually fed a minimum of 3 times to a maximum of 8 times, depending on the type and amount of the dishes served. They need much food to grow and you may want to increase their metabolism by raising the temperature a little, something around 29-30 degreeC. Indeed tank size and efficiency of filter dictate the frequency of water change, but if you have substrate, daily water change if you can manage, not only because the substrate being junk collector, also that you are adding more trace elements that are essential for growth. I do not incline to low % water change because the kids are always tense when you play with the water, regardless of amount involved. You should try your best not to startle them and cause them to dash about with the possibility of injury. As for water chemistry, Discus is always amazing in the way they can adapt to different conditions, that's why many people, experts or breeders do not agree to a fix water requirement. As long as your water pH is around 7.5, I believe with daily water change you will not have adverse condition that your discus could not handle with guts, not mentioning the cost you can save from spending on all sorts of test kits because those are already not so necessary(Unless nitrogen cycle may miraculously occurs in a single day and wipe out your brood ;D).

 

[ronrca]

Yes and no, Dino! Agree and disagree! I would never do large water changes every day unles the water you are putting into the tank has very close parameters to the water in the tank. You can achieve this by aging your water and adjusting it to the chemistry of the tank. Experts and breeders to this. I do not since I do not have the facilities to do so. Therefore when I am doing a water change (tapwater), the chemistry of the tapwater and tank water are quite different. Therefore I only change around 20% of the water. Any more will stress out the discus.

I agree that Discus are tough fish and can adapt however they first have to adapt to the new water change and then back to the 'old' water. My tapwater of course has not aged therefore will 'de-gas' and I will have pH swings. Im not so worried about my discus adapting, they will. However, Im more concerned about my Discus being stressed and suseptible to disease. Disease comes from stress since it is that opposite from "ease" or comfort. You did mention that the discus will be stressed because of you attempting the water change but why add the addition stress of different water chemistry. Not a good idea. My discus actually are quite at ease when Im performing a water change.

Of course, like mentioned before, if you match the tank water, then I would also do larger water changes.

 

[discusaquarium]

hey all, i'd say taybelz for one, is this your first order of discus. if it is, i would not mail order them. try and find a breeder around you, if you are new to discus - i would not take the risk of shipping them, most people have enough problems just buying from their crappy LFS's and you can SEE whats goin on there. i would never mail order just due to the fact that there are some money grubbing people out there who send $hit for fish and get away with it. also, you can see if there are any other diseased fish in the tank when you buy from a store/breeder. the easiest size to buy is about 2-3" which is pretty much what you'll see everywhere. as for feeding, i'd feed new discus 4 times a day until they're about 2 months old and then cut back to 2 times a day. even with frequent water changes the beefheart will foul your water, do as many changes as you can, little ones if your tap/RO mixture is far from your tank water and larger ones the closer it is. if you can get your fish to eat pellets and flakes - you need to tell me how you did it...lol mine wont eat them. as ronrca said disease comes from stress - i would look for some discus in a trustworthy LFS or nearby breeder before i mail ordered...mail order puts a great deal of stress on the fish..hope i could help

 

[Dinocine]

i live in a tropical country with stable water chemistry, so it may sound regular water change isn't quite discordant, but what we achieve here is not maintaining the bulk of 'old' water, but conversely, maintaining high amount of 'new' water, therefore rendering the discus to the water chemistry of our tap water condition. water change up to 90 percent is practiced by experts and breeders here, in other words, the water parameters of the tank is always maintained to the like of our tap water. i'm referring to the application on young discus, not adult discus.

Discus get used to the patterns of the surroundings, and they will know that the ugly big fish with no fins is there to change their water again. I like that 'ease' derived from 'disease' Ron! Discus are tough guys and blend with their surroundings and water conditions, but ironically, they are quite susceptible to poor water quality and infections. I might be imprecise in my last message, but to rephase it, my discus do not get stressed out according to my regular water change, but they are definitely glaring at me and suspecting fishy intents. They may be stressed if startled, i.e. knocking on the tank, sudden movement in the water etc. when changing water. So it is denpendent on the crumsy finless fish managing the water change with its barbels.

I'm not exactly sure it is proper to practice this method of water change besides tropical regions with regular water chemistry, but anyone with the fish guts to reverse to maintaining new water than old? I could not dictate which method is best for young discus and its growth, but I think it all comes down to the available water chemistry and the common practice of a region.

I agree with Discusaquarium not to purchase on-line because it is just visual purchase afterall. Choose the fish yourself and at least you are the one making the good or bad pick. Of course to pick it yourself you will need some experience and understanding of discus, best is that you employ the help of an experts. My haughty guys don't accept flakes and pellets too, and I reckon that one way is to put them on fast and offer those not so delicious cuisines to them as the only choice. But I will no do that on them beacuse they are just little kids, not that they are supposed to be naughty, but it is detrimental to their growth.

 

[taybelZ]

The thing is lots of fish shops around here are pretty $$$ and the quality of their fish isn't supurb also there isn't many varity/strains... you are right in saying this is my fish time ordering livestock online. But i have mentioned the "breeder" in a couple of forums and a lot of people are happy with their fish. So its not exactly like i'm buying from a dealer with a blind eye. I am aware their are people who are strickly in the discus scene for the money... I have been alerted by a couple of people of who to stay away from. The price difference from online to a shop is about 1/2 the difference. I guess it is taking a risk. Buying from a shop is hard enuf.. getting to adapt to your tank
You guys mention filters.. i am using biological air driven sponge filters..."oxygen plus bio filter II" i have been thinking of getting a wet/dry setup but i'm not to certain as to how much better it is incomparision to my current setup

 

[taybelZ]

Forgot to mention the tank size... i was goin 2 use a 55 gallon tank (48x14x18) to raise 20 babys.. then as they grow up more split them up.

 

[ronrca]

Dino,
I guess we might of misunderstood each other especially since we live in different circumstances. My tap, for example, isnt the best for discus. Hardness changes and pH changes within a week or two sometimes. The pH is around 7.0 when it first comes out of the tap but in three days in container, it will rise to 7.8+. Breeders in my area 'age' their water thereby stabling it (de-gasing, de-chlorinating). Some use R/O water. I guess the point that I was trying to make was that one should know their tap water before deciding to make large frequent water changes. In my case, if I were to make 90% water changes every day (using tap water), my discus most likely would die.

taybelz,
I know what you mean by paying big $$ for discus at the lfs. Im in the same boat however I managed to find a local breeder and bought some from him. I would recommend buying locally also. Good luck!

 

[Dinocine]

Taybelz-lack of choice at lfs may lead you to buy on-line, and with your homework done on those suppliers, risk factor still exist. I for one must see the actual fish before I purchase, and it's only my own preference. May be you can post a message asking anyone who happens to put up in your region to suggest a good lfs.
Ron-this discussion is getting interesting, helps my understanding of what methods other discus keepers of other countries practice. I don't quite understand 'age' water, by that you mean simply leaving it overnight or adding dechlorinator? I must do this prior to every water change too. You mentioned your water condition changes in 3 days, but what I can't get hold of is if your fresh water has a pH of 7 and only changes after 3 days, large water change daily will most likely render the pH close to 7, am I right to presume that fluctuation is unlikely to be too extreme? Unless R/O purification is employed, then it will soften and also removes trace elements from the water. So I reckon that the discus of your region are tank bred in so treated water which has changed much from the original tap water, therefore must be kept in water maintained similarly to the softened water. I can see that it is not practical to perform large water change if R/O purification is applied because only 10-30 percent useable water is produced out of the original amount. I surmise that the major different in the way we keep discus is caused by what kind of water chemistry our discus are originally bred in. Like yours to be softened(for reasons that are compulsory to comply) and mine simply out from the tap.

 

[ronrca]

Aged water means leaving to sit for 2-3 days and allowing it to de-gas or to dissipate gases like oxygen and carbon dioxide and of course chlorine. It also means adjusting the hardness and temperature along with pH. I do can not age water because I do not have the space to do so therefore I am limited to using tap water.

Like mentioned before, my tap waters pH changes drasticly over 3 days largely because of the dissipating carbon dioxide. Of couse this change happens gradually and not after day 3. Even in 1 day, the pH will go up enough to cause stress to my discus. Thus, using tap water for water changes can be done by using small amounts over a longer period of time (pH being 7.6). Since this is not a preferred method for raising discus, I have to use R/O water and use the proper chemicals suitable for discus. I do not have a R/O filter therefore must buy the water to try to minimize water changes and using R/O water at all. I try to adapt the discus as soon as possible to the tap water therefore putting us back to square one. I am planning on getting a R/O filter a.s.a.p. however they are very expensive.

All of the discus bred in my region are tank bred using R/O water with the proper trace elements added. Tap water just is not suitable. You are very lucky.

 

[taybelZ]

i'm glad u understand... anyway i know one local breeder... and i purchased some fish from him. Tho the thing is his not a big breeder just a hobbiest simply liek me  ;D
anyway he only has one strain...
my tap water is the worst!!!!
its ph 8..4 tho its soft water... kh 60ppm or 3.5 dgh
i ALWAYS age it... make sure its well aerated... atm i'm using SECHEm prime to remove chloramine/ammonia.. then i use seachem netural regulator to get it down to 7... (i'm not trying to breed them so its ok for now)

 

[ronrca]

Your doing a good job. I also use seachem prime. In my breeding tank, I have to use chemicals and pure water to adjust my pH too. My tap water hardness is around 180ppm so using it for breeding is out of the question. In my planted tank I use tap water and use C02 injection to control the pH down to 7.0.

The breeder I bought my discus had a nice setup. He was actually more of a hobbiest also (so he claims). The room was around 30ft x 20ft and all filled with tanks. He had around 10-15 breeding tanks, 20G each and 15 grow out tanks around 70G each. He made is own automatic water changer. Man, it was beautiful. I can only dream of having something like that in my basement. But like yourself taybel, he only had one strain. He was getting some ordered in that should of  arrived 2 weeks after I bought my discus. Good luck though.

 

[discusaquarium]

good deal, how many did you get and of what strain? how much did you pay for them at the breeder? good luck sounds like you're doing fine - try and get that pH down though

 

[Dinocine]

hey ron, care to describe how that hobbyist/breeder run the automatic water changer. i'm interested in installing it in a small scale one of these days, but i'm not sure exactly how. i have a friend whom i heard is a big time discus breeder, but i have lost contact with him. :'(

 

[ronrca]

Im not entirely sure Dino! I know that he had a large holding tank and a couple of pumps. It was all connected with plastic pipes. The tanks were cut to fit the plastic pipes so that they were below the water level. Thats pretty much all I know.

There are some good websites that have some info on automatic water changes.
http://members.home.net/dclubine/water.htmhttp://www.ozreef.org/diy/water_changer.html

I hope that helps. *thumbsup2*

 

[taybelZ]

well guys.. i managed to find a local breeder from Austrlaian Discus association... he lives about 1.5 hours away from me... so i'm set

 

[Dinocine]

Thanks pal, these websties provide great information. Taybelz, wonderful, what breed you gonna get and how much are you paying for? Let us know.

 

[taybelZ]

well.
today i got 4 alencers..
i'll post some pics when i get my cousins digi cam.
they are about 5cms...
tho i have another 55 gallon taht i want to stock up(empty atm)... thinking of geting Blue Diamonds/Golden Pigeon BLoods
unsure of stocking level tho.?

the current one only has the 4 alencers in the 55 gallon.. its *understock* if there is such a thing.. i might add 2-3 more. But we'll see

 

[Dinocine]

Taybelz, a rough guideline is 6 gallons per adult discus. You can put up to 9 adult discus, but lesser fishload equal to lesser water change and workload. 6-7 will be great, with other companions like 2x corydoras(choose one that isn't too large and lively which may disturb the discus), 2x oto to do the housekeeping regular. Although a discus only and bare tank is the safest way to keep the king of freshwater fish, it seems rather wasteful not to decorate a 55 gallons tank as a house decor. Good choices of discus, but in my own preference, Blue Diamond is single plain colour and golden pigeon is a fanciful mix instead, that dosn't compliment each other(with Ocean Green or Lemon seems matching to me). But of course, anything that contrasts strongly is a form of style and art itself.