Swim Bladder Problem? - Lost three in a row!

berggt

New Fish
Jan 5, 2011
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#1
Hi, I’m a newbie to this site and wanted to 'ask the pro's' about a problem i have.....

I have now lost three fish to the same problem, I have tried some advice on the web and from the shop to no avail.

History
I originally brought (as a present for my g/friend four years ago) a 21lt tank complete with a stingray pump and 2 fantail goldfish.

After just over a year one of the fantails died so i brought a oranda and a new quality pump. (i can supply details)

They live in harmony until 3 months ago when the oranda started to sit on the bottom on the tank, then this developed into a curl and finally a down ways facing curl and the end.

I carried out a water change and replaced the fish with a new oranda. Only for the original 4yo fantail to develop the same symptoms, I fed the fish fresh peas as described on the web and carried out a 100% water change but eventually he die in the same fashion.

Finally the final ‘new’ oranda showed signs. I went to the shop were they tested the water, it was ‘perfect’ in their words., so I brought King British Revitalise Tonic and sinking pellet food. I treated the water (once) and feed (once) but it meet it match the next day.

General Info
* Fed every two days (flake food originally)
* Cleaned every month
* Filter cleaned with tank water
* Tetra Aquasafe used when re-filling

Now my girlfriend thinks I’m a fish killer :mad:, even though in theory I have actually been treating them better than she did in her bedroom.

Why questions to you?

* What is happening, swim bladder disease?
* Can I keep anymore fish in the same tank?
* How can I stop this happening again

HELP

Kind Regards
Andy
 

Violet

Large Fish
Jan 24, 2004
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Toronto, Canada
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#2
First, let me say that I have not kept fantails in ages, so if someone has "more fresh in their mind" advice, awesome.

If the conversion site I used is correct, 21 liters is 5 gallons? Each fish needs 10 to 20 gallons. Also, adding more fish before you know what the issue is, is just going to lead to more fish loss most likely as you haven't corrected the problem.

If the fish is on the bottom, it doesn't sound like swim bladder, they would be upsidedown. By curl, did you mean the fish, or it's fins/tail? If it's the fins/tail, then it's more likely something like fin rot, and feeding a pea (which should be a frozen pea, I believe) is like eating salad when you have a headache, might be tasty, but not going to address the problem.

A 100% water change would just start the whole cycle all over again would it not?

Getting the water tested is great, as are the sinking pellets, do you know what the numbers are? Do you have a test kit?

As I said, I haven't kept fantils for a while, hopefully someone else who has can add more to this (and correct me on anything I may be wrong on).
 

berggt

New Fish
Jan 5, 2011
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#3
Thanks for your reply violet.

The fish lay still on the bottom (correct way up) then after a few days lay curled over (mouth down) in the corners of the tank.

Unfortunately i did not get the results of the water test but the shop (a very well respected one in essex) said it was perfect.

I understand it may now be overstocking, but surely that should not have effected the last oranda to die which live on it's own for 2 weeks before showing symptoms

Regards
Andy
 

Violet

Large Fish
Jan 24, 2004
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#4
Andy, sorry you are having trouble. It's frustrating and upsetting when you can't figure out what is going on with your fish. I'm not doubting your aquarium shop, it's just helpful to have the readings in numbers. :)

Even one goldfish is too much for a five gallon. If you have no fish in the tank, I would suggest going with something like some danios, neons, or male guppies. Even a snail to add some variety (maybe a nerite rather than an apple snail, as they stay small).

If you did not treat for the correct illness, then it would effect each fish in the tank, it would be in the water, even if there were no fish when you put a new one in.

Were there any symptoms on the fish itself? Spots, ragged fins, etc.? This will also give a clue to what is going on. I do strongly suggest though going with some small tropicals (do you have a heater?) as opposed to goldfish, even if your goldfish stay healthy, they cannot survive in that tank.

Good luck!
 

berggt

New Fish
Jan 5, 2011
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#5
Violet,

The annoying thing was that the condition of the fish was ok, slightly blacken belly on the white oranda?

I don't have a heater and the tank is plastic (not suitable), that's why we kept coldwater fish, that and the fact that they are suppose to be easy to maintain?!?

I have searched and found the tank i have (like i said in the original post i have upgrade the filter)
I purchase it because it was designed for goldfish
Elite Cool Aquarium 21Lt Other Fish Tanks for Sale

I may indeed clean the entire tank with clean tap water and throw away plants (plastic green plant), ornament (one penguin scuba diver!) and keep some of the fish suggested below, like i said i like goldfish because they are suppose to be easy to keep. I personally don't want to go down the line of checking the water every week and adjusting levels etc.

Thanks for your help but as i thought i'm going to have to start again....
 

Newman

Elite Fish
Sep 22, 2009
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Northern NJ
#6
black belly may just be the fish changing color on you. goldfish do that as they grow older.

If you start over again, be sure to read up on cycling a tank. and testing water levels is very important, so if the LFS isnt close to you you may be better off buying your own liquid test kit for testing FW. API makes a good one.
 

Violet

Large Fish
Jan 24, 2004
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#7
Goldfish are NOT easy to keep, no fish is entirely easy, some are just easier. Goldfish require large tanks (20 gallons minimum for one), they create a lot of waste (bigger bioload) and more ammonia than most other fish. Every fish/aquarium needs regular water changes, regular monitoring of water conditions, cleaning, and all the other maintenance. If you want fish that will fit in your tank, zebra danios, neons, guppies (male, so there is no breeding), or possibly another small tetra.

Just because it says it's for goldfish, does not mean it is, companies are still selling bowls for goldfish. There is no way you can keep even one goldfish in that tank. Please do some more research on goldfish if you want to keep them, but you will need a much bigger tank, that one is only about a quarter of the size you need for just one goldfish.

Goldfish can grow to minimum 10 inches, and live many years, some ten years or more. I will try to find a goldfish profile on here for you to read, but please do some more reading on them, here or a goldfish site.
 

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berggt

New Fish
Jan 5, 2011
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#8
Thanks for your replies....

Violet trust me I’m not going to make the same mistake again and just re-stock.

Depending on how my conversation with my girlfriend goes (she still thinks I’m a fish killer!) I’ll look into purchasing a better tank and researching thoroughly before purchasing and keeping fish again.

I get from your replies that I simply overstocked, and I’m guessing with the change of scenery (dark to light) they were producing more waste and the water was more 'active', thus they couldn't cope.

Thanks for your help though, I really appreciate it. When you buy these things from shops they obviously just want your money but more research and care is needed to happily home these fish. Just a little disappointed as I quite miss them now and I thought I was actually giving them a better life……
 

Violet

Large Fish
Jan 24, 2004
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Toronto, Canada
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#9
I'm glad you're not giving up on fishkeeping (and that you're not going to stubbornly just keep trying again without research or changing anything). If my reply sounded harsh, I apologise, if you read through these forums, sometimes we encounter someone who just decides to do it their way, regardless of any advice, and with not being able to hear tone of voice of here, it's hard to tell sometimes how people mean things.

If you are getting a larger tank, goldfish are quite fun, there are some people who will only keep them, they certainly have their own loyal fans. :) If you want to put your smaller tank to use, another beautiful option would be a single male betta. With some plants (plastic, silk or real) and since that tank has a canopy/light, it could be quite pretty and relaxing to watch. Some people put them near their beds so they can watch them as they go to sleep.

Check out the betta forum part on here, and also you can post in the beginner questions part for more ideas, non-goldfish related. Don't give up! Bettas are much less work if you want something sooner and it might cheer you both up to be able to create a successful tank and show your girlfriend that you aren't a fish killer. Your intentions are good, you just need to add more knowledge to that. :D
 

berggt

New Fish
Jan 5, 2011
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#10
Violet don't worry all your advice was very appreciated! :)

As with anything i go into or indeed have trouble with i like to speak to experts/experience before making the same mistakes.

I think i'll look into starting a betta tank and look for a pretty fish to keep my girlfriend happy! *BOUNCINGS

Here's to a successful new tank

thanks again
 

Dec 10, 2010
67
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Fort St. John, BC Canada
#12
Violet don't worry all your advice was very appreciated! :)

As with anything i go into or indeed have trouble with i like to speak to experts/experience before making the same mistakes.

I think i'll look into starting a betta tank and look for a pretty fish to keep my girlfriend happy! *BOUNCINGS

Here's to a successful new tank

thanks again
Hi guys! Just throwing this out there but the betta is going to need a heater as well as they like warmer water. But I don't see any reason why you can't keep a heater in the plastic tank. I have by betta in an acrylic (plastic) tank and I believe the kit actually came with a heater. Either way I haven't had any problems with keeping a heater in the tank, just make sure you buy the appropriate size.
 

Jan 22, 2011
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#13
If the conversion of the site I use is correct, 21 liters is 5 gallons? Each fish 10 to 20 gallons. In addition, before adding more fish, you know what the problem, but the fish will lead to more losses are likely because you have not corrected the problem.