saltwater filtration

[catfish]

I have seen a lot of posts recommending tons of expensive filtration for saltwater tanks here.  Has anyone ever tried a salterwater tank, not reef, with minimal filtration?  Such as just a canister filter with bio-wheels, like a HOT Magnum Pro?

The lfs I work at is a small mom-pop shop that can't afford all that fancy filtration for the salt tanks, the owner has many years experience in the business.  She also doesn't think its necessary to add all the fancy protein skimmers, uv sterilizers, etc, unless you don't maintain good water quality.  He tanks are great.

I have a 55 gal with a HOT Magnum 350 Pro and a power head with reverse flow kit for circulation.  I have some live rock and a few fish for now. They are all healthy.  

Just curious if anyone else has tried it......

 

[dattack]

I think that overall when dealing with saltwaters for beginners, you would need at least all types of filtration for a nice saltwater setup.  It's just that saltwater fishes and live corals etc. required very, clean water.  
Biological filtration is the most important thing to worry about in reef tank and that's why in the past you see many with undergravel filtration.  Since the trends towards live rock and live sand (the also help in biological filtration), undergravel filtration becomes a nuisance since the rock are placed on top of the undergravel filtration.  Many reef keepers also wet/dry filtration for better biological control.  
But to answer your question,  your magnum should do the work for your aquarium setup but you might have to do a lot of maintenance in terms of changing it.  Concerning protein skimmers, the salt fish people I know really can't live without them.  They are second most important thing next to filtration.
I have recently wanted to start up on a saltwater tank also but I want to read up more on it because I had read in one of the articles that stated to prepare to spend about 50 dollars a gallon.  Dang, that's expensive. (maybe it was a reef tank)
Unless someone out there has a system that is pretty good with low monetary input, let me know please.

Try this


http://saltaquarium.about.com/blqachklist.htm

 

[Matt Nace]

As OBK told me, and it does make sense, you always want a skimmer to remove the nasties before they become nitrAtes. You have the ability..use it. Skimmers are not that much.If you use a bio-wheel you have instant nitrAtes.

Yes you can use the magnum(not the bio-wheels) for mechanical and some biological.

Are you trying a reef or fish only. Your nitrates have to be close to nil in a reef.

There are many DIY skimmers you can make...my friend made his own...it is about 5 feet tall.

I would say you don't need fancy equipment..but you do need a skimmer.

 

[catfish]

sorry guys, I think you missed my point.  I have a tank set up with only a canister filter. I have no intentions of adding a protein skimmer unless I start having problems.  I am not going with live corals or a reef tank.  Its a fish only with some live rock.  I'm not using undergravel either.

I was trying to point out that it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to get into salt tanks.  I know someone who has several tanks set up with the simplest filtration.  They are clean and healthy.  

Many freshwater fish also require very clean water, do you add protein skimmers to freshwater tanks?

I'm not asking if my setup is ok, I believe it is.  My fish are healthy and happy.  I was hoping to help break the old myth that every kind of filtration available is needed on a simple salt tank.

 

[dattack]

Ah I see.  I am not saying it can't be done but it's just that you might run into more problems in the near future.  It's great that you can run such a setup because it's a fish only tank; therefore, you must do pretty good maintenance on the tank.

Concerning protein skimmers, it won't work on a freshwater tank because you would need a high specific gravity (for e.g. saltwater) in order for it to function.

 

[catfish]

Yeah, I only change water once a month, I'm sure I'll get slammed for that, but it seems to be working.  I haven't overloaded the bio load yet, if/when I do, I'll be sure to increase maintenance or increase filtration.  I just think its sad that everyone is quick to tell the beginner that they need tons of equipment to start a salt tank, especially if its just fish, because then next thing they tell them is to stick with fish only, as live corals, anemones, and the delicate fish are not for beginners.  

Personally, I think it would be better to encourage the beginner to start out slow, with a few of the hardier fish and less filtration so they can learn and enjoy.

Yes, someday, when I have overstocked my tank, I'm sure I will need to add the protein skimmer.  I'm thinking of the prizm. I like the size and simplicity of it, anyone heard anything about it?

I think the most important thing I have learned about salt tanks so far is patience, patience, patience....  

 

[ImaFeeder]

Just have to say this is my first visit to this site, pretty nice.  Anyways, on with my post.

Just a short note about protein skimmers.  Its about as close to natural filtration as can be produced in a marine environment.  They work in the same manner as the oceans' currents and waves work.  That is by producing tons and tons of VERY small bubbles.  As these bubbles float to the surface, they "grab" little particles which are captured towards the top of the skimmer.  This can be seen in nature as the little piles of thick, unpopped brown bubble masses found on the beach.  Catfish makes a good point by saying that these are not needed for a fish only tank.  Do they help?  Sure.  Are they needed?  Nope.

Props to catfish.  I often see beginners being turned off to salt by people saying they HAVE to spend a lot of money.

Last thing about skimmers.  The usual rule of thumb in the aquarist hobbey is the more filtration the better.  Well with a skimmer it would actually be bad to put a 100gal skimmer on a 30gal tank.  You would actually be removing too much.

Have fun all and I will see you around.

 

[dattack]

Welcome to the board and I hope we can get more saltwater fish members in here too who can contribute some topics because I for one want to learn more about saltwater.  I have been only reading up for a month or so and no setup yet but I have what I want in mine.  
I have posted on other saltwater boards but know that you need only a few intelligent and experienced posters of saltwater in this board to get things started.

 

[Ovrclckd]

[quote author=ImaFeeder link=board=saltwater&num=996984555&start=0#6 date=08/18/01 at 02:44:42]
Just have to say this is my first visit to this site, pretty nice.  Anyways, on with my post.

Just a short note about protein skimmers.  Its about as close to natural filtration as can be produced in a marine environment.  They work in the same manner as the oceans' currents and waves work.  That is by producing tons and tons of VERY small bubbles.  As these bubbles float to the surface, they "grab" little particles which are captured towards the top of the skimmer.  This can be seen in nature as the little piles of thick, unpopped brown bubble masses found on the beach.  Catfish makes a good point by saying that these are not needed for a fish only tank.  Do they help?  Sure.  Are they needed?  Nope.

Props to catfish.  I often see beginners being turned off to salt by people saying they HAVE to spend a lot of money.

Last thing about skimmers.  The usual rule of thumb in the aquarist hobbey is the more filtration the better.  Well with a skimmer it would actually be bad to put a 100gal skimmer on a 30gal tank.  You would actually be removing too much.

Have fun all and I will see you around.
[/quote]

Actualmally The closest (nearly exact) thing we can have in a marine tank, to emulate natural filteration is a deep sand bed. Small detrivores eat scraps, and turn the top layer of sand. It is aerobic, and holds nitrifying bacteria. The layer under that houses denitrifying bacteria, wow! Nitrates turn into nitrogen gas, and the export cycle is complete. This happens on a much larger scale in the worlds oceans. Natural foamation doesn't remove much from the total volume of water in the ocean  :

Also, you really can't overskim a tank. You can skim and remove trace elements, which will need to be dosed back in, but thats not a problem. You will remove more of the bad stuff than the good. Your analogy is incorrect as well. Many people actually keep skimmers like the prizm skimmer (rated upto 100 gallons) on tanks 10 gallons and smaller. 2x what the skimmer is rated for should be the minumum you look at, one thats capable of skimmer 3x your tank size is about where you should really look. The biggest tank a prizm does a decent job on is a 40 gallon.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I have to agree with OBK.

However, if your canister filter has a micron cartridge (and you change it frequently, say every couple of days), you will remove waste from the water before it breaks down into ammonia. There are many ways to get the job done!  ;D
I built my own wet-dry and protein skimmer for less then the cost of a HOT Magnum 350 Pro. But that's part of the hobby for me. ;D

BTW LFS tend to change water more frequently because every fish they sell leaves the store in water.