Rams

nobody

Large Fish
Sep 26, 2005
565
0
0
Utah
#1
Hey all,

It's been a while, but I've returned and I have a question. I recently purchased some German Blue Ram cichlids (3) and some Gold Ram cichlids (2) and it looks to me like a gold and a blue have paired up and laid eggs. I'm just curious as to which one is the male and which is the female. I think the blue is the male and the gold the female, but I'm not positive. I'd also appreciate it if you'd help me to know if I have any other females among the rest of the rams. I'm still learning about these beauties and am excited at the possibility of razing youngsters. Thanks, here are some pics.

The pair and the eggs
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111412_1734.jpg
111412_1726.jpg

The other rams
111412_1730.jpg
111412_1731.jpg
 

Jul 26, 2012
5
0
0
#3
The gold ram with the eggs is a female, easy to tell with the pink belly. The other gold is likely a male as well as the other blue rams. I've heard most gold rams are sterile (gold rams are blue rams that are inbred to the point that there is no blue pigment remaining, same with electric blues though electrics have less sterility), but that could just be the males. The rams look quite young so they likely won't be successful at spawning the first (several) times. They will become better parents as the get older and larger at which point they might need to be moved to their own quarantine tank to spawn. My rams will guard the eggs in the community aquarium for 2 days and then eat them "for their protection" but will care for them really well when in their own tank.

Now if your question is on sexing, as long as your rams are good specimens the following rules usually work:
Females: pink bellies. I have seen some males with pink bellies. These should be avoided as they are likely inbred at least to a degree and are harder to spawn and less hardy. The female's belly will get really pink when ready to spawn so gauge this if you ever want to give them a breeding tank, and both male and female will become aggressive.

Males. The first spike on the dorsal fin (I refer it to as their Bart Simpson hair) will be a lot taller It will get longer as they mature. There are other ways to tell including the black spot, but that's not as reliable due to inbreeding again. Unfortunately this fish is very easy to breed and very beautiful so they are inbred excessively. It is a good idea to get males and females from different stores with different suppliers.



Hope this helps!
 

Last edited by a moderator:

nobody

Large Fish
Sep 26, 2005
565
0
0
Utah
#5
I'm sorry Nachost, I haven't ever had a Flowerhorn. Although I might be more concerned about the convicts. I've had those before and they were quite defensive when they had babies. They might pick on the rams to much. If you really want to know I suggest that you create a thread for your question so that someone with more knowledge than me can answer your question. My 5 rams are currently all by themselves in a 40gal aquarium. I'm just trying to find out which of my rams are female and which are male.
 

Jul 26, 2012
5
0
0
#7
It looks like you have all males except the Gold ram with the eggs. The easiest way to pick females if you have good specimens (I'll get to this in a sec) is females have pink bellies and males have an extended 2nd spike on their dorsal fin (I call it their Bart Simpson hair.) There are other ways to tell the gender, such as the black spot in the middle of their bodies. In females it has the iridescent scales in the black spot, in males it's all black. Also males have little to no black on their pelvic (bottom) fins.

There are a few problems with golden rams. They are an inbred (for lack of a better term) form of the original german blue ram that has the blue bred out of them (same with electric blues but the other way around.) With this inbreeding often comes sterility especially among males. This doesn't make them any less beautiful or as fun of pets, but does make them a little less hardy than the original guys. With the inbreeding of german rams sometimes you'll have to use a combination of the above traits to get the correct gender. I've seen pink bellied males with black bottom fins way too often. These are to be avoided like the plague if you want to dabble in breeding. Often people that want to breed rams will buy males and females from different sources to ensure they aren't closely related. Good news for you is you have some good looking males which are in my experience harder to find than good females, bad news is 40 gallons isn't enough for more than 2 breeding pairs (they get super violent for peaceful fish.)
Read more here on how to tell males and females: German Blue Ram

Now on to breeding. Your guys look really young. The males will get a longer dorsal fin, and darker in the face as the get older. Sorry to disappoint, but expect to lose a couple of batches of eggs. It's really hard to get a breeding pair to keep their eggs in a community aquarium. Often they will eat the eggs in an attempt to "protect them." Also juveniles aren't the greatest parents, they will leave the eggs unattended, but they learn as they go. Once they get good at being parents, and if they are still eating the eggs you can put them in their own tank when the female is ripe: belly is large and really pink. Tank only needs to be 10 gallons (fully cycled, no exceptions), a cheap sponge filter, some plants real or fake, and some flat stones. Give them some brine shrimp and let nature do the rest. You should notice during the first day which parent is doing a better job caring for the eggs, remove the other. Within a couple of days you'll be a proud parent and can remove the other adult ram. You can then get lots of store credit at your local fish shop! You can keep trying the natural way by leaving them in there but protecting the eggs is stressful on the pair and they will usually eat the eggs (I do have a friend who is very successful at letting the rams do the breeding and raising on their own in a huge community tank, but I've never had that luck.)

Hope this helps
 

Last edited by a moderator:
Jul 26, 2012
5
0
0
#8
It looks like you have all males except the Gold ram with the eggs. The easiest way to pick females if you have good specimens (I'll get to this in a sec) is females have pink bellies and males have an extended 2nd spike on their dorsal fin (I call it their Bart Simpson hair.) There are other ways to tell the gender, such as the black spot in the middle of their bodies. In females it has the iridescent scales in the black spot, in males it's all black. Also males have little to no black on their pelvic (bottom) fins.

There are a few problems with golden rams. They are an inbred (for lack of a better term) form of the original german blue ram that has the blue bred out of them (same with electric blues but the other way around.) With this inbreeding often comes sterility especially among males. This doesn't make them any less beautiful or as fun of pets, but does make them a little less hardy than the original guys. With the inbreeding of german rams sometimes you'll have to use a combination of the above traits to get the correct gender. I've seen pink bellied males with black bottom fins way too often. These are to be avoided like the plague if you want to dabble in breeding. Often people that want to breed rams will buy males and females from different sources to ensure they aren't closely related. Good news for you is you have some good looking males which are in my experience harder to find than good females, bad news is 40 gallons isn't enough for more than 2 breeding pairs (they get super violent for peaceful fish.)


Now on to breeding. Your guys look really young. The males will get a longer dorsal fin, and darker in the face as the get older. Sorry to disappoint, but expect to lose a couple of batches of eggs. It's really hard to get a breeding pair to keep their eggs in a community aquarium. Often they will eat the eggs in an attempt to "protect them." Also juveniles aren't the greatest parents, they will leave the eggs unattended, but they learn as they go. Once they get good at being parents, and if they are still eating the eggs you can put them in their own tank when the female is ripe: belly is large and really pink. Tank only needs to be 10 gallons (fully cycled, no exceptions), a cheap sponge filter, some plants real or fake, and some flat stones. Give them some brine shrimp and let nature do the rest. You should notice during the first day which parent is doing a better job caring for the eggs, remove the other. Within a couple of days you'll be a proud parent and can remove the other adult ram. You can then get lots of store credit at your local fish shop! You can keep trying the natural way by leaving them in there but protecting the eggs is stressful on the pair and they will usually eat the eggs (I do have a friend who is very successful at letting the rams do the breeding and raising on their own in a huge community tank, but I've never had that luck.)


Hope this helps
 

nobody

Large Fish
Sep 26, 2005
565
0
0
Utah
#9
Jasongman86 that is very helpful. Thanks. I looked today and while the eggs are gone I think I can see transparent outlines of what remains of where the shells were. I don't see any fry, but the parents are hanging out in a place I can't see very well so maybe... They seem to be doing ok in defending "their spot." Honestly, when I bought these guys I was just hoping that I'd have maybe two that'd survive for a possible community tank and maybe a breeding pair. But if these two end up being a good breeding pair than I won't worry about more fish. They both seem to be doing an equal job in protecting the eggs. I don't have room or money for another tank so I hope they can make it work in the tank they're in. If not I'll probably go back to convicts. Thanks.