Moray eel

[cobra607]

I have a freshwater moray eel(yes im running him in fresh, and hes doing just fine) in a 75 gallon tank. Looking for a good scavenger as my puffer is making quite the mess. I was wondering if a crayfish or a crab could survive the puffer( figure 8 about 2inches long).

Also i was wondering about the blue crayfish that gets over 1foot(cherax something)... Would the puffer kill him and/or would he hurt my eel?

thanks

 

[Pure]

No scavengers are going to live with those fish. They are brackish and the eel will need marine as it gets older. I'll say this again. Not keeping brackish fish in the water they need you are causing them kidney damage that WILL result in killing the fish. This is not up for debate.

Ok that out of the way, no shrimp or crayfish is suited to living with those fish. Only one species of shrimp that i know of can live in brackish, the Hawaiian red shrimp. It is about the size of a ghost shrimp and would be lunch for sure. They cray..wile the puffer can't eat it, it will most likely pick at it, and crays being the way they are it will pick back. Why risk it. Second I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure the eel will eat crays too.

The best answer to your question is: When keeping messy fish that will not allow other scavengers to help clean the tank. Do it yourself thru better filtration and more water changes.

 

[cobra607]

No offense but...

How do you know it causes kidney damage, have you done expiriments yourself or what? You disect a few eels that were fresh/marine and seen the difference? Wheres the information so i can believe this... word of mouth isn't always the best for debate

 

[lordroad]

Hello, Cobra.

I don't have any experience with eels but I can point you to a couple interesting off-site threads on them...
http://www.theaquarians.net/html/fo...t=&sid=bd3496fdb2577115e4d7010df2fc4a64#33624

http://www.theaquarians.net/html/fo...t=&sid=bd3496fdb2577115e4d7010df2fc4a64#33564

In the ^ thread, you'll see that AggieMarine, who wrote the article on eel ID, states "A lot of people do successfully keep this fish in fresh water, but I'd never do it."

Can't answer your question about scavengers, though...

Also, to claim there is no debate on figure 8 puffers denies reality. There is quite a bit of controversy on what waters they are kept in. Once again I turn to Aggiemarine, who sources ichythologists, fishbase.org, over anecdotal evidence from fishkeepers.

http://www.theaquarians.net/html/fo...t=&sid=1062add86f48905085f5c5fed669065a#31544

And now some anecdotal evidence from fish keepers who disagree...
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_puffer2.php

I hope you find a solution and good luck with your fish!

 

[Pure]

My comment wasn't about the fig 8s it was more directed at causing the fish damage, and death by not keeping it appropriately.

Oddly enough, those posts were the only one's I have seen to date that said anything close to them not needing BW. I do have to disagree with the logic that breeding only occurs in FW so this fish must be FW. It is common knowledge that many BW fish move to FW for spawning and in most cases will only spawn in FW.

The only source that she quoted that would be easy to verify is fishbase.org. Wile yes fishbase is a great source of information. I use it all the time. But I also know to take some of the information at face value as there is plenty of misinformation on it.

If you will please take note that all of the threads listed were dated 2003. Information in this hobby changes overnight.

The last link showed some interesting comments from owners, but I also noticed that the majority said they had only had them for several months. no long term owners really spoke up.

From the last post in that link "I have found that the sizes of the puffers become slightly larger than they do if housed inside a fresh water aquarium, mine are about to 10 cm or so, and that the colors including those of their eyes become more astounding in their beauty."

If this were true would it not stand to reason that the fish needs salt?

I will also say that that was the first time I have read (in a very long time) any comments on them being or needing marine conditions.

 

[Pure]

Cobra, sorry I missed your question.

I've read that numerous times during my extensive research of various brackish fish and puffers. There is no way I can begin to even dig through all the web pages to pull this info. Sorry I don't save every tidbit of info I come across to my favorites folder. (sarcasm not intended)

The best thing you can do is, do your own research then tell me why I am wrong.

 

[SeaMonkeyMiner]

Cobra: I've disected sharks before. but there are not really anytrue freshwater sharks that I can think of.(bull shark but is an osmoregulator closest thing to a freshwater shark)Though that has nothing to do with eels unless you go back to the family, class or order where every they cross paths.

How long have you had the moray eel?(one week is not long enoughfor you to say that it is doing fine) you understand moray eels are saltwater creatures. true or not? From what I remember they go into mangrooves swamps to breed(this is just what I remember not 100% sure if it is right). How big is your eel it soon could make a snack out of your puffer or your puffer chew the tail off your eel.

Mangroove swamps are brakish. where salt water and fresh water mix where there is little wave action. The baby moray eels are caught there and the Idea is that if they can live there as a baby an adult can live in freshwater which Im sure it can but for how long is up for debate.

hell You could live underwater for sometime till you run out of air. The same thing is for fish. Have you every seen people put feeder goldfish in saltwater tanks? Hey they live till they are eaten. but they can live for a couple of hours in the salt water. Left to long in the salt water the goldfish's cell will shrivel up killing the fish though osmosis. If you took a saltwater fish and put it in fresh water it would explode, its cells that is.

salt water salinity is like 35‰ while fresh water is 0‰. then braskish is somewhere inbetween there. Moray eels are designed to store salt in their blood streams when they travel into freshwater. and their kidneys instead of excreting the salt keeps it in its bloodstream other wise it's cell walls would break, killing the fish. The problem with storing a fish in pure fresh water is that eventually it loses its salt then it dies can be a slow process.( I think this is were pure's kidney damage comes from not sure if there is kidney damage.)

But hey if it works for you then fine.

(there may be some holes or mistakes in my reasons if someone could correct those taht would be great.)

 

[cobra607]

had the eel...

for about 3 months, its 14ish inches long, regular respiration, eating fine, also have another moray about 10-12 inches long had for a month or two, good respiration and eating as well.

Your theory sounds good, but the problem with that is how do you know this species of eel requires salt? If your talking all out marine then yes i see your point but as for these its not uncommon for them to live in freshwater for a long time.

I dont like hearing people that "heard" its not good, i want factual proof that the "FRESHWATER" species require salt. Most people that say they shouldnt be fresh or brack tend to have never even owned an eel at all and are saying it because others said it with no actual facts as in why this is.

Another thing about you theory is how long does this salt last? because if this was the case wouldnt you be able to "load" them with salt and then put them in freshwater again?

 

[SeaMonkeyMiner]

Hey if it works for you then great.

Just for debates sake I would am contiuning the debate. Nothing personal

Actually You have never mentioned what type of eel it is with binomial nomenclature so I can not confirm or deny way type of eel it is.

Like pure said prove it wrong with some scientific data, research. The only problem with web sites is that anyone can make a website so there has to be sometype of real factual information to them.

"...its not uncommon for them to live in freshwater for a long time.
" Uhh where did you get this? true they can survive in brakish water for some time to breed. Pure fresh water IDK

I want factual proof that "freshwater" species exist in nature

The amount of salt that is in the eel or fish or whatever depend on many factors. Also its not really a theory, its a rehash of what I can remember of a scienific observation from my marine biology class.

Umm loading them with salt? lol no.(i know what you mean but it sounds funny, you could shove a salt lick down their mouth jk) I think you mean throw them in salt water then put them in freshwater. No that would not work they are to sensitive for that. The eel would probably die from the shock of the chemistry change.

Like I said If it works for you then great but I cordually disagree.

 

[Masta_Cheef]

So what's the big controversy all about? Why can't you just make the tank brackish and call it good? Brackish still has salt in it, correct? Puffers are brackish, correct? I always thought eels were marine only, and not to be intended to be kept in fresh for any lengthy period of time more than it takes to breed and get back out to the ocean.

 

[Pure]

I want factual proof that "freshwater" species exist in nature

There is no proof. The truth to the matter is they are collected in fresh water and thus labeled as fresh water. What some people need to remember/know is that calling them "fresh water" is little less than a marketing ploy to get you to buy them.

The fish needs salt. At what % depends on what species it is.

 

[Pure]

Also...Welcome to the tank Cobra..really we are all here to help, so please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

 

[knifefishfreack]

yea i hve to agree there is no brackish eels excpet spinnies and like north american somthin , most brackish fish start out in fresh when born then over a period of time they migrate to teh ocean. Hed proable do ok for a while then get alot mre tired and stuff into adult hood. Do u have pictures of him mybe its not a fresh moray. like Masta cheef said try it if it doesnt work it doesnt work. also do u have pictures?

 

[cobra607]

Eel update

Well i got one eel left now... one took a flying leap out of what i thought was a well sealed aquarium. Since there difficult to find i probably wont be getting another one anytime soon, but i still want something eel like(dont forget i still have one moray so dont want nothing to kick his yanno) Theres a fire eel in one of the tanks here but he hardly comes out and is kind of boring, are all of the spiney eels like this or do some have more personallity than others... thanks

 

[knifefishfreack]

well mybe you would like a rope fish herers some info....http://images.google.com/imgres?img...shwater+eels&start=20&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N
I would also suggest covering all the filters to and heater holes thats were tehy also try and get out.... if you want somthing really friendly i woul try a bicher .... you would proable perfer a segnal the most friendly of the species and cheapest. They also get a pretty good size and are really cool swimmers.

 

[saratara290]

Hey everyone i have what they call a Freshwater snowflake eel in my 100 gallon tank. At the pet store they said that he is brackish i do put salt in the tank for him. I didn't believe it at first but he sems to be doing ok. I feed him ghost shrimp and frozen krill shrimp. I have tried to find info out about him on the web but there is not much info out on them. I will keep posting on his conditions to see how things go.

 

[BigDaddy420]

have to agree on the bichir, i love mine, he's so interesting to watch. i had 2 of them and found one with a shrimp pellet lodges in his mouth sideways. they have loads of personality, i dont know about the friendly part, he seems to take a nip at everyone now and them, just have to make sure he has tankmates that cant fit in his mouth. mine has ate 2 adult size fancy tails and 1 juvenille molly so far and tons of other guppy juvies. they absolutely love alot of floating plants, mine will weave in and out of 'the jungle' of hornwort and anacharis, its wild to watch.