Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[SantaMonica]

Well I'm trying to get caught up with the posts; gonna have to combine a few here to get them out without postponing anymore. Seems to be a lot of interest in scrubbers that are unique, like the giant one, and the solar one. Well today is another unique one, but first here are some results feedback:


"Pong" on the RF site said "i had a lot of green hair algae growing on my screen. noticed that the red algae in my DT has lessened dramatically."

"Johnt" on the UR site said "I've always used phosphate remover. I've tried most makes but always ended back using Rowa. since running the scrubber I've stopped the phosphate reactor and despite the scrubber not yet being at the Turf Algae stage the phosphate readings are dropping."

And "thauro77" on the SWF site said "Here are my test results, the dates are the water changes dates as well:

08/28
Calcium 660mg/l (when I first used the filter)
Carbonate 196.9 ppm/kh
Phosphate 0.5
Nitrates 20ppm

09/04
Calcium 500
Carbonate 214.8
Phosphate 0.5
Nitrates 10ppm

09/09
Calcium 440
carbonate 143.2
phosphate 0.5
nitrates 10ppm

09/23
calcium 440
carbonate 214.8
phosphate 0.25
nitrate 5.0ppm



And now for the first screen on any thread to use LEDs! "Snailrider" on the AC site built it:

He knows that the part of the screen underwater will not contribute, so he made sure the part above the water had enough size to handle things. We'll see how LED's work!
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[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day:

Lighting Duration: Set up your scrubber lighting on a timer for 18 hours ON, and six hours OFF. The scrubber itself won't care when those hours are, but if you want, you can have them on when your display lights are off, so as to help balance pH in the system.

 

[SantaMonica]

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Here is a note to skimmer manufacturers, as well as manufacturers of acrylics/plastics, lighting, and pumps. One way to benefit from scrubbers is to start building them, so as to make life easier for aquarists. There is no patent, and I have no interest in building them, although designing them is fun. Promoting them is fun too. But manufacturing is not my thing, so hopefully some folks will start making at least a simple version (like the Santa Monica 120) available. Look at it like this: Manufacturers of skimmers currently make an expensive product that has pumps and acrylic/plastic parts. Manufacturers of lighting currently make an expensive product that has bulbs, ballasts, and frames. Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.

Scrubbers, however, do. Instead of viewing scrubbers as a make-at-home rig that stops people from buying skimmers, manufacturers should instead view scrubbers as a piece of aquarium equipment they can manufacture which includes acrylic, plastic, lights, pumps, timers, fans and complex parts, all woven together. Imagine the designs that could be achieved which would allow the most water flow, the most air, the most light, all in the least space possible, and for the best price. It's a designer's dream. Sure, many folks will continue making their own scrubbers, but at some point these folks will upgrade their tanks and will not want to hassle with building larger versions. So, here are some things I thought of that manufacturers could offer:


o A simple low-cost design; just an acrylic box, preferably with a mirror inside finish. The customer would add all other parts. This is what I built.

o Complex designs that would be needed to fit into the many different places that aquarists have: Above a crowded sump, behind the tank, vertically next to tank, next to a tank in a stand-alone furniture finish, or on the wall as a decorative item.

o Skimmers designed to work with scrubbers, by having one connect/feed the other.

o Scrubber lights with built-in timers, for nanos.

o Ultra small scrubber boxes for nanos, possibly with self-contained LED lights, the size of a cell phone.

o Nano hoods with scrubbers built into them.

o Sumps with built in scrubbers, instead of built-in wet/dry's.

o Display lighting-fixtures with scrubbers connected to the back of them, such that the scrubber uses the same light.

o Tank options, such as scrubber-on-backside.

o Auto-cleaners that clean/scrub/scrape the screen automatically.

o Hand/electric tools specialized to clean the screen.

o RODI sprayers that give the screen a FW spray periodically (to kill pods), possibly doubling as a top off.

o Non-destructive pumps to get pods from the sump to the display.

o Self-priming pumps built in to scrubber, for placement on top of displays with no sump.

o Quick-disconnect waterfall pipes.

o Double and triple thick screens, which allow algae to stick better during cleanings.

o Multiple screens, with large areas for large tanks.

o Ultra thin LED powered flexible screens, which could weave around obstacles.

o Fan on a temp controller, to keep water temp preset.

o Uniquely shaped T5 panels, such as 12 X 12, to perfectly fit a screen.

o Safety switches that cut off the lights and/or flow during certain conditions.



A great first model could be targeted to smaller tanks (SW and FW) that may not have sumps, and thus would include a self-priming pump inside the scrubber. It would sit on or near the display and would pull water up to it. It would drain right back to the display, and would give the customer the option of letting the algae grow out the drain (and into the tank to feed the fish), or removing the algae as it comes out of the drain, before it gets to the display.
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[SantaMonica]

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Results of the Day:


"darkblue" on the RP site says, "Been running a 4"x10" OHF [over head filter scrubber] version on my 15g for almost 2 months already. My Nitrate reading started dropping after around 3 weeks. I've had 0 Nitrates for a month now. I'm using Seachem for my tests. The screen is just partially covered with what I think are patches of brown turf."

And "jfdelacruz", also on the RP site, says "I recently implemented this on my tank. I [originally] had an overhead filter to try and filter out a lot of detritus, and changed out filter foams every week. nitrates and phosphates were high and I had brown algae (kinda like cyano) on my sandbed already too thick to fight. I did the 2 days lights out and it took out the brown film algae. I bought a 10watt fluorescent light from carti and then cut a right fit cross-stitch cloth as my screen and layed it flat on my OHF and took out the foam. lights are on 24/7 [temporarily]. I'm on my 5th day and algae is basically non existent in the tank, while the whole cloth is covered in the same brown film algae that covered my sandbed and is starting to grow the green algae. 10,000K ung fluorescent and after day 2 it already had algae on it. on day 3 the whole cloth was lightly covered. im still waiting for day 10. also Im going on a 2nd week no water change just to try it out and so far everything's doing good. coral's are happy and clam is happy. inverts and clownfish is also happy and eating lots of cyclopeeze everyday!


Also, I'm putting together a little series on how nutrients work in our aquariums. It will hopefully help folks better understand what affects what, and how we can make things work their best. Here's the first one below. I use Salifert for my testing, so I'll just refer to them:
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[SantaMonica]

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Builds Of The Day:

This one is from "Sandztorm" on the RP site; it is a version of the nano that I listed on page 1, where a simple screen replaces the foam filter in the hood, and a light is added on top:

This one from "Coopattack" on the FG site wraps the PVC around the bottom of the screen to hold it in place:

Here is a trough version by "framerguy" on the CR site (the lights have since been lowered closer to the trough):

This one from "Labman" on the MD site wanted a taller one in a more narrow size, so he attached two plastic canvas screens together:

"Johntanjm" from the MD site placed screens on both sides of the bulb, instead of a bulb on both sides of the screen:

"Mrobo77031" on the UR site just attached the pipe and lights to the stand, and put some reflective material around it:

And "Mudshark" on the MASA site just drilled the pvc with holes, and wrapped a screen around it:

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[SantaMonica]

Well here is my 7-day cleaning from yesterday. First, here's the screen before cleaning, looking at the the edge:

Here's the screen after cleaning:

And here's what was removed:

So it was a half-pound of wet green hair, about the same as last week. Once thing about cleaning green hair compared to real turf (my other screen that's now at the LFS) is that it slides off so easy, it's hard to leave any on the screen. I tried to only clean one side, but some of the other side detached too. You can almost just run tap water over it, and the loose stuff comes off. Maybe a better design is two half-screens, so you can just pull one out and clean it completely, while not touching the other one.

 

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day:

Why Larger Is Not Better: A larger screen, by itself (without larger lights), is not better than a smaller screen. This means that if you want more nitrate and phosphate removal from your water, the best way to do it is by getting stronger lights, or by moving the lights closer to the screen. If all you do is get a larger screen, the new larger edges of the screen will be too far from the light to have any effect. Of course, the most effective way to increase nitrate and phosphate removal is to do all three: Increase screen size; add more lights to cover the new screen parts; and position all the lights closer to the screen.

 

[SantaMonica]

Text Version:

Food --> fish,corals --> Organic Nitrate, Organic Phosphate.

Organic Nitrate, Organic Phosphate --> Bacteria --> Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic Phosphate.

Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic Phosphate --> Algae --> Oxygen

 

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day:

Feeding: Here are the two building block articles by Eric Borneman that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to understand what scrubbers do:

The Food of Reefs, Part 5: Bacteria by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com

Here is an excerpt from the second one:

"Detritus [waste] ... is the principal food source for the many bacterial species that work in various nitrification and denitrification activities. Before reaching the microbial community, however, [waste] acts as a food source for the smaller consumers such as amphipods, copepods, errant polychaetes, protozoans, flagellates, ciliates and other animals whose activities contribute to the stability and productivity of a coral reef and a coral reef aquarium."

and

"Of the many food sources available to corals and already discussed in this series of articles, particulate organic material [waste], dissolved organic material [DOC/DOM], and bacteria are the most universally accepted food sources"

and

"The use of detrital material, or particulate organic material, as food source is a cornerstone of coral reef ecology and forms what is well accepted to be the base of the entire food chain"

 

[SantaMonica]

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Here's one reason I really like using scrubber without a skimmer. My purple gorg and red feather star stay open and extended all day and night, even though they naturally do so only during the night. But since there is no skimmer removing organics (food), and since the scrubber adds pods to the water all day, not only do they eat well, but they do so 24/7. Note: You cannot keep filter feeders likes these if you have a skimmer...

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/My90starAndGorg.jpg
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[SantaMonica]

Stages of an aquarist's happiness with a scrubber:

1. The day you see the first very light-brown color on the screen.
2. The day you see the screen covered left to right, top to bottom.
3. The day AFTER you think you saw your N or P test go down. Because that day after, you tested again to be sure.
4. The day you realized, for sure, that the the piece of filtration equipment you removed last week was really and truely not needed.
5. The day you finally realize that the N and P problems you've been fighting for (weeks, months, years) are finally gone.
5. The day another aquarist asks you, "How did you do it?"

 

[di0nysus]

hi im setting one of these bad boys up in my sump but im having one problem. i have dry spots on the screen from the waterfall. heres a short vid to show you what i mean.

is this normal at first? or what should i do to fix it if its not.

 

[SantaMonica]

Simple answer: You need more flow. Figure on 35 gph for every inch wide the screen in. That screen looks to be about 14 inches wide. If correct, you'd want a pump that can handle 14 X 35 = 490 gph (adjustable). Is this the case?

Also, is this for your 50g? If so that screen is way too big. You only need one square inch for every gallon. A 7 inch by 7 inch screen (49 square inches) is fine. You can you 1/4 of that screen you have there, and make a new smaller waterfall pipe (or just plug up the excess of that one), and it should be much better.

The pipe has a slot, and not drilled holes, correct?

 

[di0nysus]

yes its for my 50g tank. i cut a slot for the sheet to fit in and no i didnt drill any holes.
if i cut my sheet and put it back in place what could i use to plug up the rest of the slot thats not needed in the pvc piping. oh and the sheet is 10.5 inches wide

 

[SantaMonica]

Cut your screen 5 wide by 10 tall, so you are only using 5 inches of the slot. And for now, use tape around the rest. Later you can do a new pipe. You have a light on both sides, right?

 

[di0nysus]

i do have a light on both sides. i will fix the screen as soon as i get a chance and post up a update untill then thanx for your help

 

[SantaMonica]

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Text Version:

Nutrients, part 3

The amount of Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate that a scrubber removes is directly controlled by how much light-power hits the scrubber:

1" - The light-power is full strength.
4" - At 4" distance, the same bulb power has to cover four times the area, so the power per square inch is only 25 percent of what is was (reduced 75%).
6" - At 6" distance, the same bulb power has to cover nine times the area, so the power per square inch is only 11 percent of what is was (reduced 89%).

This is why placing the bulb very close to the scrubber is extremely important.
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[SantaMonica]

Reminder of the Day: Proper Flow


While not as important as how strong and near the bulb is, proper flow has shown to help a lot. Before Mrobo770131 on the UR site got things tuned properly, his flow looked like this:

Zennzzo on the MFK site, however, got it perfect from the start:

The trick is to have 35 gph (adjustable) for every inch width of the screen. And this is assuming your waterfall pipe has a slot. If your pipe uses drilled holes (not recommended) then you will use less.
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[SantaMonica]

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"Sly" on the SWF site, who built a scrubber into a kitchen trash can (including a mechanical surge), gets the award for the biggest scrubber harvest so far on any site:

 

[SantaMonica]

Today's success story comes from "BearUSA" on the TR site. He did what many folks call the "combined" approach... using lots of things in addition to his scrubber to help eliminate his nuisance algae. Wish he had more pics, but here is the before:

And after:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/UserBearUSAonTalkingReef-10.jpg


Here is his setup:

And here is what he said along the way:

8/21: this guide is awesome, i,m gonna be building me one of these as soon as i get some time to myself, thanks for posting this so everyone can see and share.

9/10: what is the best way to get rid of nuisance algae, despite regular water changes and picking this stuff off the rocks it keeps growing back, my nitrates are 0ppm confirmed with 2 different test kits. my phosphates are also 0ppm with different tests. i have since set up a turf algae screen but that has only been running for a day and a half so its not working yet.

9/10: [waterfall pipe is] just an ordinary gravel vac pipe, fed by my external canister filter, the light is above at the mo i need to go out and buy some brackets and 2 light fixtures so i can have a light either side of screen, the other end of the gravel vac pipe has a water tight access plug, so i can still get in to clean the pipe. this nuisance algae just keeps on growing despite regular water changes picking it off the rocks, this stuff is ugly no matter what i do it just dont wont to disapear, this turf filter is my last resort.

9/13: i am determined to get this right but sometimes its so disheartning to see a tank that you try your very best to get things right to just keep getting covered in crap algae.

9/18: over the last couple of days i have noticed the nuisance algae i've been suffering with is eventually starting to die off. i'm sure the second 60 litre tank that i placed my calurpa green grape and cheato are starting to take up the nutrients before the nuisance stuff, i'm so pleased today that my tank is half way to looking great again.

9/20: i have done 2 small water changes whilst siphoning out as much as possible, i'm quite glad now i,m eventually getting back on track, my water is crystal clear all params are spot on, i had feared of water turning a bit yellowy with the release off the nutrients from the dying algae but i have had none of that. [...] hopefully fingers crossed i,ve got a hold on this now.

9/23: [answering "how did you do it"]: it could be a number of elements, i took on board all the advice which i received which im totally greatful for, i set up a 60 litre tank next to my main dt and filled it with a 4 inch deep sand bed, plus added culurpa green grape and cheato, i set up a temporary turf algae filter as suggested by Santa Monica in his thread under mega powerful nitrate and phosphate remover, i have continuously picked at the stuff and used a toothbrush to gently wipe over the rocks and inside the nooks and crannys, no doubt scaring my fish half to death, the only thing i haven't done yet is to replace the skimmer, i should say upgrade the skimmer, currently running a red sea pro prism, i had advice to get rid of it and get a better one. and also added another koralia 2 to improve water circulation which i placed at the bottom of dt to serge current over sand bed. increased slightly the amount of water i take out for water change, from about 90litres to about 125litres every 2 to 3 weeks. on the whole it could be any number of things i have done if not all, and once again i would like to thank all of you for your advice and recommendations.

10/6: this thread is really getting interesting now with all the different people posting and for santa monica posting pics of the scrubbers, etc. GOOD WORK SANTA MONICA KEEP IT UP

10/9: i,ve nearly cracked it, this nuisance algae have a look at these pics to see, i'm over the moon its nearly all gone.

10/16: i've been running my scrubber for about a month and a half now, n and p are zero, i have always had a zero n and p reading using the salifert test kits, but when i had that nuisance algae problem i was told the kits were registering zero because it was quite possible that the algae were taken it all in. if that makes any sense. ps another note i'd like to thank you again for your hard work and commitmant in keeping this thread a live and with the great pics your posting up, keep up the good work, without your posting of this thread i wouldn't have even known about these turf filters, so once again a BIG THANKYOU.
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