inactive puffers...great water...why?

[gruntle]

Hi everyone!

Ok...I have no idea what I am doing wrong. My puffers are inactive *SLEEPING* ...and I thought they were supposed to be active little fish.

My water levels are all perfect, as is the salinity. The temp is 79 degrees.

When I do water changes I only use bottled water. (no tap water)

They are eating fine. I feed them frozen brine shrimp, and frozen blood worms and sunday I fed them some ghost shrimp (live). I think it was after I fed them the ghost shrimp that they seemed to get a little sluggish and sickly.*SICK*

I have a bubble wall, and two logs to explore. It is a 10 gallon, but I am working to get a 60 hex I think. I know they need a bigger tank soon.

Last night I put some melafix in the tank, and repeated today. I didnt remove the carbon filter, or the bio wheel.

Does anyone have any suggestions here?

Thanks.

 

[Limi310]

When you say inactive, what exactly are they doing? Hiding, laying on the substrate?

Can you please post the readings of your water test as well as the Ph?
Why don't you use tap water? Are you mixing the salt in with the bottled water before water changes?

Are you using MARINE salt (such as Instant Ocean) not aquarium salt?

The Melafix is pretty ineffective if you left the carbon in the filter as the carbon will pull the Melafix right back out.

 

[Brack-Man]

yeah what Limi said....we need more than the water is perfect, we need numbers for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH and SG (salinity). Without numbers dont know what to say to help. some pics might be helpful as well. GSP's can and do change "colors", mostly they change the brightness of their colors, and this depends on their "mood", i.e. if they are stressed they will be darker with a dark belly, if they are happy they will be brighter with white belly and a bright green spot on top of their head.

I know other people have told you that a 10 gal is too small for a GSP not to mention 2 of them, and I'm glad to see your trying to find a bigger tank, but my suggestion is this...dont get a hex tank for puffers....they like to have swimming space more horizontal room would be better than vertical room, usually you can get a 55 gal tank cheaper than you can get a 60 gal hex, and that would better meet the needs of GSP's thatn a 60 hex would. The other thing I need to say is this, 2 GSP's will not tolerate each other for long....as juvies they're ok together but in 6 months or so they will probably start fighting with each other over territory....the best you could do is to either get 2 30gal tanks and set them up in their own tank or take one back and find other tank mates fo rthe remaining GSP....just my 2 cents...hehe guess thats more like a dime.


EDIT: what kind of test kit are you using when you test the water....if your having you LFS test them for you then get numbers from them...not just that your water is perfect...if you dont have tests kits you might ought to think about purchasing some, it will really help you dertime for yourself if your water is "perfect" or not

 

[gruntle]

Ok...here goes:

Nitrate = 20 ppm (mg/l)
Nitrite = 0
Total Hardness (gh) ppm = 300
Total Alkalinity (KH) ppm = 80
ph = 7.2

Ammonia = .25 ppm (mg/l)

Specific Gravity = 1.009

I have my own test kits. I use them often.

I dont use tap water because it is very hard and full of minerals here...with floride added. I had a problem with my levels when I was using tap water.

I use marine salt and was not adding it until I filled the tank after a partial water change...I guess I screwed up there.

Both are laying on the substrate and breathing quickly. The little one that changes colors gets really light almost a sandy color, but when he moves around to eat he changes back to green with black spots and a green spot on top.

I was looking at a hex because of space.

Thanks for the answers...what do you think now that I have provided more info?

 

[Limi310]

I use marine salt and was not adding it until I filled the tank after a partial water change...I guess I screwed up there.

Since you said you screwed up, I am assumming now you know never to add marine salt directly to the tank with livestock. It can cause burns on the fish. This could possibly be part of the problem of why your fish seem to be stressed.
Premix your brackish water in a bucket with a powerhead and/or airstone. This will also accomplish aerating the water. If you are using bottled water it might have a low oxygen content.
I think they are stressed...maybe add more vertical decorations. Puffers need a Heavily decorated tank, lots of plants, rocks, caves and places to hide - the key is to break up the vertical lines of sight.
Most puffers are wild caught and come in with internal parasites.....it wouldn't hurt to treat them with an anti parasite food. They make a liquid to soak their food in. Lots of people do this automatically with puffers because it is so common for them to have parasites.

Keep us updated with any changes in behavior so we can try to help.

I also agree with what Brack-Man said about the hex tank. You would be MUCH better off with 2 separate 30 gal. Or 1 large tank and a large tank isn't a guarentee that they won't kill each other when they get a little older.

 

[gruntle]

OMG...I feel so bad aboutt he salt! I think that is what happenhed to the little guys...hopefully they will recover.

Has anyone ever had a tank with just puffers (maybe three of them) without them killing each other?

I have lots of stuff in my tank, but I will add even more.

I will also think seriously about a longer tank...instead of the hex.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[gruntle]

Oh...I forgot...what type of liquid antibiotic do I soak thier food in, and can you soak the frozen brine shrimp or blood worms in it? Am I feeding them what they need? I was thinking that maybe I am not nourishing them properly.

Obviously I have a lot to learn about puffers...can you recommend a good book?

I have "Pufferfish" by Chris Ralph...any other good book out there specifically on puffers?

Thanks again!

 

[Pure]

Why are you treating their food with antibiotics?

I've kept a green spot in with 2 fig 8s for a lil over a yr and havn't had any problems. The Fig 8s are getting moved as the GSP is getting large enough to need full SW.

 

[gruntle]

Whoops...I meant anti-parasitic food...

 

[Limi310]

Discomed, by Aquatronics I've heard is good and seems the most recommended. Jungle also makes one. I don't have any experience with either.
Whether or not your puffers get along is going to depend on the individual personalities of your puffers. I would just have a back-up plan in mind later on if things don't work out and they have to be separated.

In your other thread, I mentioned that Brine really isn't all that nutritious, ok once in a while, but not as a staple. Puffers have a 'beak' that needs to be kept trimmed so they need lots of cruchies in their diet. Snails, Ghost Shrimp (gut loaded), frozen or freeze dried krill. You can also find things at the grocery store such as raw shrimp with the shell on, crab legs, mussles, clams.
A varied diet is best.

 

[Brack-Man]

One other thing I noticed about your water params is that your pH is low,7.2, you need to get your pH up around 8.0. You should raise it slowly though not all at once. Also your SG may be too high for them right now, chances are that the pets store you got them from was keeping them in fresh water, and they may be a little over stressed due to a higher SG than what they were used to. You might try lowering your SG, slowly, for a period of time and then start raising it back up slowly. When you raise or lower the SG you shouldnt raise it more than .002 at a time then give the puffers about 6-8 weeks at that SG then raise it a little more.

Limi hit right on the nose about diet, and for meds teh Discomed works pretty darned good, thats what I used on my F8's, and yeah you can soak the brine shrimp and blood worms in the meds.



After thought.... Hello Pure long time no see...Hope your feeling ok *PEACE!*

 

[gruntle]

the puffers were in brackish water at the pet shop...they have a REALLY good fish dept there...anyway, they were in the same salinity that I have. I really think Limi hit the nail on the head about adding the marine salt directly to the tank. I think I burned them...I feel terrible about it...what a stupid thing to do...and the one that was really having trouble was the one that was so curious about everything and swam right into the salt when I added it!

I am going to give them some snails tomorrow, and look for some more food to make sure they have a balanced diet...

Any ideas about books only on puffers?

 

[Mahamotorworks]

Just for future Reference what is the best thing to do for salt burns? Besides not causing them.

MAHA

 

[f8fan]

Any ideas about books only on puffers?

Honestly, gruntle, I wouldn't waste money on a book about puffers. You have the best research tool in the world at your fingertips - the Internet. Along with this forum, there are a few other good forums out there where you can get reliable information about puffer care. Here's one:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/index.php?sid=4352ba67531e685da8a834093047463a


Try doing some Google searches of the puffer you have and read articles about them. Here are some good articles I have read:
Green Spotted Puffer, Pufferfish (Tetraodon nigroviridis), with picture / photo
Green Spotted Puffer Profile
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html

 

[Brack-Man]

Just for future Reference what is the best thing to do for salt burns? Besides not causing them.

MAHA

The best thing besides not doing it is hoping you didnt burn them too bad and giving them a little time to heal...as long as its not a severe burn they should make a full recovery.

I still think your pH is too low... You should definitely try to raise it up, your puffers will be happier and healthier. *celebrate

 

[YahooFishKeeper]

i think you may be able to use crushed coral to help buffer the water higher.

 

[gruntle]

How do I raise the ph?

 

[Brack-Man]

Yahoo suggested using crushed coral to raise it, and that will work...I personally like aragonite better, but either will work. You should be able to find filter media bags, small mesh bag, at you LFS, just put some aragonite or crushed coral in it and stick it in you HOB filter. that would be the easiest way to do it.

 

[YahooFishKeeper]

i also like aragonite better, but i figured crushed coral would be a little easier because there are already fish in the tank so aragonite might make it too cloudy. but now that i thonk about it, the puffers will probably like a sand type substrate better.