HELP! My fish are dying...

[whiteangel]

On the weekend I went to the markets and bought some warm water fish, but Im not an expert on fish, Im more of a dog person. I did everything I was told to, I put in the water conditioner that was provided, the water is at a constant level of 25C, the heater is on 24C, I rinsed off all the equipment ie. filter, heater, thermometer, pebbles, artifical plants & a rock water feature, everything before I added it to the tank & before the fish went into the tank.

Yesterday, one of my black widow (dont know the official name) fish died, I then cleaned out the water and all the pebbles etc, everything in the tank and then re-conditioned the water, then thought they would be ok, now my second black widow is very ill and has no strength to swim although he is trying. My Siamese fighter (dont know the official name) seems ok and it doesnt seem to bother him, I hope he will be ok, I have had one before who didnt need that much attention.

I have double checked the ph level, the chlorine level & everything else. I dont know whats wrong.

What am I doing wrong?

Please help me save my fish.

 

[Velvet AciD]

How many fish did you put in at first?

 

[whiteangel]

RE: How many fish did you put in?

I put only 3 as advised by the salesperson.

2 Black Widows

1 Siamese Fighter

 

[ladyhawk]

maybe an answer??

OK..about your new fish and tank. I also just started fish keeping as hobbie about a year ago and had simiar problems.
My first question for you is did you buy the tank and fish the same day? kind of hard to tell from your post. If you did and set up the water and all that...then added fish...this is not a good thing. Really it is best to set up the tank have it running with the water a couple of days before adding the fish.
Next question I see that you said after the first fish died you cleaned the water. Even though yes you should remove the dead fish,... if you keep cleaning new water it will never 'cycle'.
IT is best to start a new tank with a few fish like the sales man told you. After som many weeks(it's different for every tank) a certin amount of 'good' bacteria form. This stuff is essential for a good tank.
So my advise is stop any cleaning of water unless you have a uter disaster and it smells bad or something like that.
Also a basic fish care book that gives the long winded verion of 'cycleing' will help you much.

just as a note...when i first started i killed an entire tank of fancy guppies and sword tails thinking high amonia was the problem. I didn't know enough about the water chemestry to know a spike of amonia is normal in the begining. So I went and got a book about new tanks. Things have gone much better this time

 

[whiteangel]

Well, Im not experienced with tropical fish, I have only ever had your normal gold fish or cold water fish.

I have owned a Siamese Fighter (think known as a "Betta"), he was sold to me with a small plastic hexagon shape tank, he was a low maintanence fish that didnt require filter, heater etc. which I think is strange because now I have to give my new "Betta" heaps more attention. My nephew was very young at the time and kept getting into my room and putting things in the tank, so he eventually killed him.

But, when I went to the markets on the weekend, the lady didnt tell me anything about waiting a month or so till the tank is ok to put fish into, she just sold me the equipment and told me to wait 30 minutes for the water to heat up before adding the fish. My sister actually told me about testing the water and getting a thermometer.

So, most probably, Im thinking that warm water fish are really fussy and need to be treated very dilacately.

 

[ladyhawk]

Best bet....

Well yes and no about the fish being hard. In the begining there is a bit of work involved in setting them up. But once you get everything setteled and the tank 'Cycles' your in good shape for the most part.
You dont have to wait a month to add fish.There are a couple ways to start out.
First way.... and I think most common, is to set up the tank as you did...AE. ...put togeter..add water with water treatment...add heater and filter and a therm. to see the water temp.
After a few days add a few fish like 3 maybe 4 to a 10 gallon tank.Test your water every day and you will see a amonia spike and possibly some cloudieness. This is all normal and the begining of your good bacteria growth.
Second way(I think I will try next time) there is a way to set up a tank with NO fish and use common house hold amonia and some bacteria from a bottel or from a allready established tank. You more or less grow a bacteria colony from the amonia. You make the water healthy before you ever get fish. From what I've read it sounds really good.
Some where on this site I read a long page on this method. Only I'm not sure where I found it
I hope things balence out for you and your remaining fish make it. Good luck


P.S.....I bought a little 3 dollar book at wal-mart about fish hobbieing....it help me tons. This site is best though.

 

[whiteangel]

I am having a little trouble with the whole bacteria concept, isnt bacteria a bad thing.

I just dont understand it???

How does the WHOLE process actually work, from start to end.

 

[whiteangel]

Also, what happens to the Bacteria once the fish are introduced to the aquarium?

 

[ladyhawk]

Good bacteria

okay....books will give the long detailed answer, mine will be more in common tounge.
When you put fish in the water they eat and then poop.Their waste makes ammonia and you test kits will regester a rise. Simultaneously helpful nitrosomonas bacteria will begin to colonize the tank. After a week or so the new colonoy of bacteria should break down the ammonia. But it doesn't stop there.
The ammonia is broken down into NITRITE...this is still toxic to fish. Another helpful bacteria ...the nitobacter...will develop to work on the nitrite.It will take another week or so for them to break down the NITRITE in to 'NITRATE'.
Nitrate is only harmful in very high levels. Partial water changes help keep the nitrate in safe levels.
The carbon filter you load in to filter box hanging off the back of the tank will one of the places your good bacteria will grow.So even though they do need changeing once and a while, changeing them to much can cut out to much of the good bugs.Another place the good guys grow is in your gravel.
Another thing I have read. That is... saveing some water jugs and filling them with only a drop or two of water treatment and tap water , then leaving it alone for about 3 days. This makes better water for the fish than the stuff STRAIGHT from the tap with the water treatments.
Just 2 things to remember *1*......Only start a new tank with a FEW fish. To many can over do the Ammonia process and they can poision themselves.(this is why I liked the do it with out fish artical I read, you wont hurt your fish that way)
*2*......You must still do partial water changes. Like 20% of the water. Some say every week ...some say every 2 weeks. Get some books and decide what sounds good to you...or ask others here. They have been very helpful for me.
GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[HanshaSuro]

So, basically, Ammonia (which your fish excrete) will burn your fishes gills if it gets to really high levels. They may gasp at the surface and die. Ladyhawk is talking about allowing bacteria to colonize the tank which feed on that ammonia and will keep it at a reasonable level. This happens in all fish tanks or the fish die. Ammonia is broken down by one type of bacteria into Nitrite, which is still bad for your fish, then a second type of bacteria breaks that down into Nitrate, which your fish can tolerate alot better. I agree. Set your tank up with no fish for a few days, then add the fish a few every week until its stocked. You can get test kits for Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates at the fish store. Test religiously until your tank is cycled. First, the ammonia levels will soar, then they will come down and the nitrites will go up, then the nitrites will go down and the nitrates will go up. The bacteria will colonize your filter media and any gravel in your tank so water changes shouldn't bother them unless you really scrub out the filter or gravel. Also, remove any dead plant matter or uneaten food promptly. I have a little gravel vac that works great. I just vacume the gravel when I do my weekly water changes. (Water changes are the only way to get rid of nitrates. Do at least a 50% water change ever week and test your water before and after you do it if you want to watch the difference.) Also, if your ammonia or nitrites are getting really out of hand by all means do a water change! It will save your fish and probably won't remove too many good bacteria. Good luck. I think there's a good description of the process of cycling a new tank on the newbies page if what we said makes no sense at all.

 

[Flex26]

Ladyhawk and Hanshasuro explained the cycle process quite well. Here is the link they were talking about:

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4084

Also, you mentioned that you cleaned your gravel and decorations after your fish died. Did you use soap? The reason I ask is because you should never use soap to clean your fish equipment. Soap kills fish!!

Just remember bacteria is your friend.

 

[whiteangel]

Thanks you guys for helping.

Since I last added my thread, my two black widows did die, my Betta was looking a bit sick and I changed him to another tank, which he seemed to like much better, which was of course much smaller for him to swim around in.

I then went and consulted another pet store which seemed to know a lot more about maintaing a fishes environment and after a lot of time and frustration, I now have 1 male Betta (yep hes still going) and 3 female Bettas who seem very happy in the tank.

I also acquired a Ammonia tester, Nitrate tester & Hp tester, so Im hoping that within the next week or two I can add some more fishes and get really hooked on being a fish lover, they are so fascinating.

Thanks again, it really does help.

 

[ladyhawk]

Well At least ...

Well at least you have a better working spot to start with now. I hope your Betta ventures go alot better for you. I know it sucks about the other fish dieing. I just lost one of my new additions without any explanation.
But at least we get to try again.
GOOD LUCK!!!