Goldfish Experiment

[emmanuelchavez]

I needed another break from studying for finals, and all I can think about now is doing the experiment regarding goldfish, discussed in another thread.

I'm definitely up for trying the experiment after the summer is over. If any other MFT members would like to join in as well, that'd be great.

Chris, to answer your question, I have no dissecting skills what-so-ever. I never did dissecting in high school biology, the school decided the year before I took it to stop doing so, a lot of the (very girly) girls in the school complained (it was a school with a guy:girl ratio of about 1:3). The only 'biology' experience I've had since high school is invertebrate paleobiology, which doesn't include (vertebrate) goldfish.

Maybe we can work on setting up some groundwork for starting the experiment:

2 different environments.

1 not-so-ideal
1 'ideal'

What size tanks do we want for each?
What should be the acceptable temp ranges for each environment?
Take other factors into consideration? ie. planted tanks (harder to keep with goldies).

 

[Kissyboots]

Maybe you could do an experiment where you have a couple different situations.

Control (20g-30g tank with the proper temp)
Temp (20-30g tank with the wrong temp, too high most likely)
Tank (small tank, maybe 10g or smaller, with the proper temp)

That would allow you to see the differences in the temp and tank size. I would love to help with the experiment, but I'm not sure I would have the time or resources. I only have a 6.6g right now.

You'd definitely have to be testing your parameters every week. Ooo, maybe you could do another tank where the water quality sucks but everything else is normal...maybe that would be going off track.

Anyway, those are just some ideas.

EDIT: A problem you might come across is the fish. You don't know how old it is and you can't get the same fish for every tank. That means you'll have to do the experiment a couple times...

 

[jo3olous]

I needed another break from studying for finals, and all I can think about now is doing the experiment regarding goldfish, discussed in another thread.

I'm definitely up for trying the experiment after the summer is over. If any other MFT members would like to join in as well, that'd be great.

Chris, to answer your question, I have no dissecting skills what-so-ever. I never did dissecting in high school biology, the school decided the year before I took it to stop doing so, a lot of the (very girly) girls in the school complained (it was a school with a guy:girl ratio of about 1:3). The only 'biology' experience I've had since high school is invertebrate paleobiology, which doesn't include (vertebrate) goldfish.

Maybe we can work on setting up some groundwork for starting the experiment:

2 different environments.

1 not-so-ideal
1 'ideal'

What size tanks do we want for each?
What should be the acceptable temp ranges for each environment?
Take other factors into consideration? ie. planted tanks (harder to keep with goldies).

what were the hypotheses in the other thread? From what it looks like you want to try goldfish in different living conditions, then dissect them and look for differences?

You should be happy you went a highschool with a guy:girl ratio of 1:3

 

[emmanuelchavez]

what were the hypotheses in the other thread? From what it looks like you want to try goldfish in different living conditions, then dissect them and look for differences?

You should be happy you went a highschool with a guy:girl ratio of 1:3

I'm currently more concerned with the temperature differences than growth rates in different sized tanks. That could be experimented with tropical or coldwater fish.

As far as the high school guy:girl ratio, it had its perks... but those girls loved the drama, and I hate it. It really hit me though, when my geology classes consisted of about 5 females and 40 guys... talk about sausage-fest fieldtrips. Good thing I fell behind a year with geology courses, I fell into a class group with a 50/50 guy:girl ratio.

 

[Lotus]

I believe one of the main concerns with temperature is that it shortens the life of the goldfish. Because a higher temperature means a higher metabolic rate, the goldfishes' lives should be shortened because of the temperature.

Of course, this could take 5, 10, 15 or 20 years to actually finish this experiment.

Good luck with it, it should be interesting.

 

[Chris_A]

OK, I don't really have time right now to type it up but I'll work on something tonight or tomorrow. Kinda like a draft procedure that everyone interested in this could follow once it's hammered out with everyone interested. That way results could be somewhat comparable.

I know how much you like your planted tanks Eman but in this case I think it may turn into too much of an uncontrolable variable between all the tanks. and so far as disecting... Lemme think/do some looking on that one... I might have an idea... just need to check on the legality of it...

 

[Chris_A]

Of course, this could take 5, 10, 15 or 20 years to actually finish this experiment.

Indeed it could... I'm considering putting a definitive end date on mine. Not saying everyone would need to... but it is a thought...

Also, I'd suggest fancy goldfish. I doubt many people could dedicate enough space for common ones over such a long time. Don't forget people, the common goldfish can get a foot-ish lol .

 

[brian1973]

Just to point out emman from your thought about higher metabolism that our native fish actually eat less during the summer months when the water is warmer so they slow down a bit to conserve energy, now being goldfish are really carp, who seem to be active all summer long, that will be interesting to read about, but IME you will typically find carp feeding along the banks on overcast days, or in the morning hours before the sunrises and right at sunset.

Since some types fancy goldfish already have some internal organ issues the best may be common goldfish.

 

[Chris_A]

Since some types fancy goldfish already have some internal organ issues the best may be common goldfish.

Yeah, I did actually consider this. So long as they are the same type for both the control and test, there's something "normal" to compare to.

That said, it could also be a "size limit". Say the first one to (pulling a number out of the air) 5" ends the test. At least for Commons anyway.

 

[brian1973]

my thought...
1 in a 1.5G filtered tank.
1 in a 10G
1 in a 20G
You would have to get 3 normal measurements first..as in..buy 3 5" ones dissect and measure organs..take the average of the 3 to set a baseline. then you would have to wait until the other 2 reached 5" then do the same, now remember I said I havent seen anything supporting the stunting theory as decribed in the tropical community, this type of experiment has been done, just have to see if I can find the results.

The temp may make a difference but how much of a difference may as lotus said take years to determine...and maybe a REALLY big tank..lol.

 

[emmanuelchavez]

Since I won't be to even begin this experiment until September at the earliest, I'm going to definitely be reading up a lot about all the issues brought up. I'm paying tons of money in library fees each semester, and during the summer (summer school : /), I may as well use that resource to find as many academic papers as possible that have already done this.

I read a paper about a neurological experiment done with goldies and the relationship to warmer temperatures. It said something about warmer temperatures speeding up something.... haha, I can't recall.

I think I'm also using this as an excuse just to get a goldfish, I've been wanting one for a while.

I'm ok with anyone taking the lead on this, I'll join in whenever I can.


BTW, a common goldie is what I've wanted! I think. They at least look like the common goldfish, but are white and orange... and sometimes black... I'll take another gander at them this weekend to make sure.

 

[brian1973]

I did some more reading and I may have been wrong about the feeding slowing, I will research this when I have more time as well.