Figure 8 Puffer help

jcpaisley

Medium Fish
Sep 19, 2007
70
0
0
Atlanta, GA
#1
Got 2 figure 8 puffers (about 2-2.5") in a 20L about 1 month ago (Nov 29). Aside from the larger puffer not eating at first, they have been doing fine. Tank was cycled, pH 7.8-8.0, brackish water. Last water change on Sunday 12/23 - 50%, cleaned the decor due to a brown algae bloom (which I don't understand in itself because nitrates have never been over 10 since the puffers were put in it -- maybe too much light...), added another small HOB filter, and some more plastic plants (well rinsed). This morning, the larger of the two puffers did not look his normal self and did not eat, went to Christmas dinner at friends, and when we got back tonight, he is doing very poorly and appears to be on his last fins. His skin has tiny white/yellow spots kinda where you'd expect spines (?) to pop out (very patterned and evenly spaced) and looks kinda pocced. His belly is extremely concave but he looks slightly enlarged around his anal fin. He is sitting on the bottom, hardly breathing, with an occassional burst of swimming only to wind up at the bottom again. Tested the water, pH is 7.8, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0.25, Nitrates 5.0 (did I kill off my bacteria during the last water change? Prior to water change, ammonia and nitrites were 0, nitrates 5). However, if it was due to the tank parameters, wouldn't both fish be suffering? Could he have parasites? By the time I get a response, I think he will be dead, but I want to keep the other one alive. He appears to be doing fine, eating and swimming around like normal. Any suggestions on what might have happened with the big guy? What does one do when they know the fish is dying, but hasn't gone yet? It pains me to watch him struggle...
 

f8fan

MFT Staff
Nov 19, 2004
1,765
8
38
Bangor, Maine
#2
Sorry to hear your troubles with the little guy! :(
When you bought them 2 months ago, were they in brackish water at the pet store or Freshwater? Do you think it could be an acclimation problem?

My puffers sometimes have that "pocky" look but it's not very pronounced...just enough so you can tell that's where their puffer "spikes" are if they puffed...this is a bad photo representation but I just grabbed it off the Internet to show you what I mean:

Do you have any reason to think maybe he puffed and is having difficulty getting back to normal? Just a guess....

When you cleaned the tank, did you clean/change the filter medium? If so, then yah, it's possible the bacteria colony got too low and there isn't a healthy amount to keep up with the waste, and the fact that you now have nitrites isn't good in an established tank. Also, did you match the temperature and salinity with the replacement water? And I'm sure you did, but did you dechlorinate the new water?

Internal parasites are so common in puffers, and his concave belly is a telling sign. Is it lumpy looking, too?

If he still doesn't get better, I would euthanize him in the freezer. If he's that ill than it's the best thing you can do for him. I'd do frequent small water changes in the tank for the remaining puffer and keep an eye on those readings.

Good luck.
 

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jcpaisley

Medium Fish
Sep 19, 2007
70
0
0
Atlanta, GA
#3
The big guy passed about an hour after I posted...:(

They were a gift, but I am assuming they were in brackish water at the LFS as the guy there told the givers that was what they needed. We have not been measuring the salinity, just adding a little salt when we did a water change. Perhaps we overdid it and killed the bacteria that way? We were told to add 2 tbsp of salt to the water at the beginning, so we have just been adding based on that (1 tbsp if 50% water change, 1/2 tbsp if 25%...). The LFS guy sold us API aquarium salt, which I have now read in the sticky is not recommended...I have some Oceanic natural sea salt mix, should I change to that (and get a hydrometer to start measuring)? In answer to your other question, I did not change filter media nor forget to dechlorinate at the water change. They were getting a 25% change once a week, but got a 50% last time due to the algae (which has not bloomed again since we cut down on the light cycle -- although it has only been 3 days :rolleyes: ). I know that one fish may be hardier than the next, but I can't help but think if such a quick change in health was due to something like salinity or the nitrites, both fish would be affected...

The spotting was pretty patterned like he was/had been puffing, but definitely did not look like that picture! ;) I tried to take a picture of it after I took him out of the tank, but my camera isn't good closeup (forget trying one through the glass and the water), so I couldn't get a good pic of the spotting. It was all over his body...I have no idea why he would have puffed, either...is that something they may do if startled? What would startle him like that after a month in his new home?

He did look a little lumpy, but not much different than he has since we got him, but still not quite the same shape as the little guy. Maybe he has had parasites all along? I think they were a "trade in" at the LFS. There were 4 of them in the tank there, all with lots of fin damage...I had been scoping them out for a few weeks, hence the reason my friends thought they would be a good gift...but their fins had almost completely grown back over the past month, and they were looking so good! I felt so bad and helpless last night when he was struggling...

Well, at least the little guy seems fine this morning, just seems to be looking for his buddy (or he may be happy to have all the food to himself!). I will be doing a water change in my oscar tank today, so I will do a small one in the puffer tank as well, and I will keep an eye on the tank parameters...

Thanks for the advice, and keep an eye out for me...I really like having the puffers...very cute and interactive!

Carrie
 

Dec 1, 2007
43
0
0
#4
The concave belly makes me think IP. Try treating for that and keep doing water changes everyday for a while to see if he perks up.

If you feel you have to euthanize him, I wouldn't do it in the freezer, though accepted as a painless way a few years back new research suggests it's not a good way to do it.

A better way is "shock freezing"
This method utilises the coldest water you can find - a bowl of water that has been placed in the freezer long enough for the surface to freeze is good. The surface ice is broken and the bowl taken to the dying fish.

The fish is then captured and dropped into the freezing water. The difference between the temperature of the tank and the freezing water causes an instant fatal shock to the fish nervous system stopping all organ functions instantaneously - anyone who has found themselves suddenly in water that is much colder than your body temperature will know the feeling when you initially can't breathe (people have died of heart failure under similar circumstances), it is like that but much more severe and sudden.

Stress is caused in the handling of the fish, but in most of the methods the fish must be handled - however this handling is brief.
:edit:

aw. Sorry to hear he passed. :(
You'll definately want to switch to ocean salt and get a refractometer. Aquarium salt won't do anything for the fish and it can't make brackish water.
You also might want to keep your remaining fish by himself, as it's recommended to have 15gallons per Figure 8 puffer.
 

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jcpaisley

Medium Fish
Sep 19, 2007
70
0
0
Atlanta, GA
#5
You'll definately want to switch to ocean salt and get a refractometer. Aquarium salt won't do anything for the fish and it can't make brackish water.

You also might want to keep your remaining fish by himself, as it's recommended to have 15gallons per Figure 8 puffer.
I read that somewhere after they were given to me. Why so much space? Is it a territory thing or a bioload thing? Guess I can look that up...Does it being a long tank make a difference (more surface area)? Pretty amazing...the guy at the LFS told my friends we could put 4 of them in that tank! It's a really good store, but I guess not everyone working there has the same level of expertise...

Did a 25% water change this morning...added a small amt of the sea salt. Will go look for a refractometer later today to see where it stands. I would assume that since I have been using aquarium salt (which is what the guy at the LFS sold them), my water is not brackish but freshwater. I've read not to raise it more than 0.002, but don't recall if that is per day or per week...guess I should look it up!

Do you think I should treat the tank for IP?

Thanks again for the advise!
 

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Dec 1, 2007
43
0
0
#6
It wouldn't hurt to treat for IP, I use the Jungle brand IP medication fish food, and it works well, it's just a matter of whether or not your puffer will eat it. I soak mine in garlic first so it's more appealing (chop up garlic, let the medication soak for a few min. discard garlic and offer medication). You should also clean out the substrate really well to make sure you don't have any IP lurking around in there (after the fish passes them they can live in the gravel for a while looking for a new host).

The 15gallon thing is for two reasons. The first being that puffers are very aggressive fish, when young, they're not as bad, but full grow puffers will tear each other apart if there's not enough space for them. The second reason is the enormous bioload these guys produce. You need to have a larger vol. of water to dilute the ammonia from the waste they produce. Green Spotted Puffers for instance only grow to about 6" but need 30gallons of space per fish.

And you should probably do about a 70% water change before adding Ocean salt to clear out most of the Aquarium salt. Otherwise your readings will be off when you get a refractometer.
 

Apr 8, 2011
1
0
0
#8
Puffer

Hey i got a figure 8 puffer today and i am wondering how to tell the diffrents between male and female oh and if saltwater is needed i have him in brakishwater and someone said about when there full grown you must put them in saltwater is this true??? :confused:
 

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