as green as the day is long...

[gouramimommy]

good morning... i have a few questions.. (i've been saving them all for one post.) last saturday.. i purchased a 30g hexagon tank with: an undergravel filtering system and two powerheads (i think they're called). we treated the water with stress coat, and the next day, we purchased some fishes.. 2 baby pink kissers and 3 blue gourami. now.. i really wish i would have done more research, of course, but it's a little too late for that.. all the fish seem to be doing pretty well, except one of my blue's.. he's staying very near the surface, and looks like he's having some trouble swimming. while in the fish shop yesterday, i spoke with a woman who believes my blue is having trouble with oxygen, so i bought an air stone for the tank and plopped that in there too.. i've also been having alot of trouble with the temp.. we have unplugged the heater, and are floating bags of ice to cool the water down to 74°-76°.. we've also been keeping an eye on the ph/nitrites/ammonias.. everything seems fine. any ideas? tips? suggestions? should i do a water change soon? when/how often do you think i should do them? we aren't adding any more fish for at least another 3 weeks.. good idea? think we should wait longer? we started this tank for my 7 year old son who's been very enthusiastic and helpful and concerned about his blue. i hadn't known before hand what i was getting into completely, but i am very committed to doing this right. thank you in advance for your help.. i've been all over the web this week, looking for information, and i must say, these are the best message boards i've come across.. you guys have a lovely thing going on here.. in anycase, enjoy your afternoon!

 

[Matt Nace]

As you know, your tank isn't cycled yet. You must monitor the ammonia and nitites. I do a water change weekly. You should do the same, but may have to do more if the ammonia and/or nitites rise too high.

Make sure your gravel isn't too deep. The UGF need about 2 inches of depth to be effective.In a 30 hex, you have less area for the bacteria to grow, then a standard 30.I suggest a mechanical filter in addition to the UGF. The UGF is really for Biological. You should get a simple filter like an aquaclear or whisper to help get the debris out of the water.

Make sure you limit your feeding. Dont let any flakes hit the gravel, the kissers and Blues are  good eaters, so I dont see this being a problem.If they do..your feeding too much. Once a day and just so everyone gets a couple flakes is fine.

I would defenitly not add another fish until you are finished cycling.When ammonia and nitites are 0 and you have nitrates.

Make sure you vaccuum half the gravel to keep it from getting clogged.

Add the stresscoat to the water you are adding before you put it in the tank when you do a water change.

I found gourmis to stay in one spot near the surface, so he may not be in trouble. If it is an oxegen problem, the airstone should resolve it.

The water can goto 80f and not be a pronlem.Even a tad higher is ok.

Remeber the kissers can get big, and the blue gourmis can get 5 inches...so you dont have a lot of room left for more fish. I suggest Ottos after you cycle to eat any algae.

HTH

 

[gouramimommy]

thank you very much for the advice..

out of curiosity... any idea how long it will take the pink kissers to turn into giant fishes?

ty!

 

[Matt Nace]

The more you feed them, the more space you give them to live in, the faster and bigger they will be.

They may even outgrow that tank eventually.

I dont like overfed fish..they are fat and over weight, and in my expierence, dont live as long.

 

[Ovrclckd]

[quote author=MaleRubyBarb link=board=beginner&num=992096407&start=0#3 date=06/10/01 at 09:59:03]
They may even outgrow that tank eventually.

[/quote]

They will definately outgrow the tank. A pink kissing gourami grows 10-12", a 30 hex is ~20 deep, ~20 wide and 24" tall. Two of them would be fine in a 55g, better yet a 75g when they grow up. I'm not sure how long it takes, but generally, small fish that get large grow pretty quickly. I'd 4-6" a year they'd grow.

 

[ryanp15]

Yes the pink kissers will definitely outgrow that tank. They reach about 12" and that's to big for a 30g hex. If you want to keep them then you'll need to get a larger tank like OBK said. 55-75 gallons would be perfect. If you can't get one that big then you could always give them back to the lfs or to someone who has the space for them. That's just my opinion though. ;D

 

[ronrca]

Another tip in order to keep the fish from dying is keep the ph down under 7.0 preferably. This is because ammonia is more toxic at higher ph the same goes with temp. If you are having trouble with oxygen, keep the temp down. At higher temp., there is less oxygen. It would also be advisable to get some gravel or filter media from a lfs with a bacteria cultural living on it. Your tank would cycle more quickly.

 

[gouramimommy]

hello again..

i met a young man at the fish shop.. who gave me the same look i assume you guys would have given me when he heard i'd plopped some fishes into this virgin tank.. i think i'm going to ask him if he'd take the fish, either for his own home set up.. or for the store, at least.. because i can't watch them suffer this cycling? if i knew 2 weeks ago what i know now... rest assured i would have waited. cross your fingers for me that he'll agree to this 'adoption', ok?

provided the adoption works out... what next?

we wanted to move the tank to a location in our home that, hopefully, won't have the heat issue we're having now.. so i guess i should just empty all the waters, move the tank, and start anew.. (while starting a small hospital tank near by simultaneously.) thank you all for your advice, and thank you all for not flaming me for going about this all wrong. i'm sure that took much restraint, and believe me, i've learned my lesson.

i'll let you know how it goes...

thanks again!

 

[ronrca]

Im glad that you could provide a temporary home for your fish for awhile. The best thing to do now is see if you can get some gravel or filter media from a disease free tank. Next is read the following article http://homepage.ntlworld.com/faustus/nicoldaquaria/fishless.htmIt works great without killing fish! Give it a try. Established gravel or filter media works the best because it does not take as long to cycle. If you cant get any, you can cycle without from scratch but it takes much longer.

 

[Kristin]

you can do fishless cycling. it's relatively simple. go get some ammonia and add some to the tank each day, depending on how heavily you stock your tank add more or less. monitor the water with a testing kit, and after about a month you could add fish. you could also get some very hardy fish that will survive cycling. danios work very well, and so do apple snails (and they will keep your tank clean, too- just remember to only get one or there will be 100000000 babies!) and various other fish. do some research on how big they get, though, and also do some research on ph, hardness, etc. try to figure out what kind of water comes out of your tap and get the kind of fish that do well in those conditions- it will save you alot of money in chemical treatments.

 

[gouramimommy]

good afternoon!

1st off, i'd like to thank everyone for their wonderful advice and patience with me.

the adoption was successful!
we drained the tank.. (keeping three 4g buckets of the old water..) and moved it to a better location.. added the old waters.. and refilled with distilled water.(our local fish store employee suggested doing so for a stable ph reading. he says he does all his water changes with distilled.) he also suggested that we get 2 zebra danois.. and add 2 per week for 3 more weeks..

any thoughts?

we also are going to start up a quarantine tank.. hopefully this weekend.. only 6-10g.. (we haven't decided yet.) i've read that cycling the quarantine/hospital tanks is pointless because most medications will wipe out the bacteria... should we go ahead and cycle it at first, hoping to use it more as a quarantine tank, rather than a hospital tank..?

since we'll obviously start out with some zebra danios... reccomendations for compatable fish (for later on, of course.) would be most helpful.

the tank is a 30g hexagon w/ an UGF, two powerheads and an airstone.

thanks again!

 

[ronrca]

If you are going to be using the fishless cycle, dont use any fish. If you really do need some fish to look at while its cycling, go with whitecloud minnows. They are probably the toughest fish out there.

 

[Matt Nace]

g-mommy

I disagree with the fish store owner.

Distilled water is pure water with nothing in it.

There is no trace elements or mineral content in it.

Your fish need some  trace elements and minerals to stay alive in the water.So you would have to add them back into the water.

The next big problem is distilled water has no buffering capacity. Your PH will be very unstable. When the fish give off Co2, it will lower your Ph. It has nothing to keep it steady and not to fluctuate . The result could be a PH crash, and your fish would most likely die from it.

Now you can mix it 50/50 and it would work fine, unless your local water is also low in hardness, in which case a 75 tap/25 distilled is better.

But the main thing is ..why would you use it?

My tap water is very hard and my PH is 7.2

I can keep almost every fish and plant.

Unless you have extreme conditions..it is not worth your effort IMO , or money.


I would keep the q-tank cycled. I always keep an otto or two in there, or a few guppys, so when I add a fish, it has the bacteria to hold it, without having to put it through more stress from ammonia and/or nitIte.

HTH

 

[clothahump]

Thank the lords that Barb is back.
The store owner needs shooting, distilled water will even kill humans if that is all you drink, the man is mad.
Gouramis are Labyrinth fish that in nature live in overgrown filthy ditches and streams that have little or no oxygen, they will take oxygen from the surface this is then kept in the labyrinth organ and is slowly filtered through the gills, when it is used up they return to the surface to start the process over again.
As your other fish were OK I would suspect this fish had some sort of disease that was aggrivated by the stress of moving.
Find your self a good book and read it all, then read another and keep asking advice, we all learnt that way.
Persevere with this hobby it is well worth it.
GOOD LUCK. 8)

 

[ronrca]

Please remember that distilled water is not pure water. Depending on the distillation, it depends on what is being removed. My parnets distiller is basicly a carbon filter. It boils the water then filters through the carbon. Therefore it is not pure water yet. R/O produces pure water however. The lfs might not necessarily be wrong. It depends on the distillation.

I do however agree with Ruby to mix 50/50 with tap water.

 

[gouramimommy]

as of this morning, my tank chemistry was this:
ammonia: 0-0.5
ph: 7.0
nitrite: .25
dKH: 71.6ppm (4°)
dGH: 89.5ppm (5°)

thats with the three 4g, two week old waters + the rest distilled. now i went ahead and ran some tests on our tap water, and the distilled water alone, and this is what i got.

*tap*
dKH: 125.3ppm (7°)
dGH: 143.2ppm (8°)
ph: 7.8

*distilled*
dKH: 71.6ppm (4°)
dGH: 17.9ppm (1°)
ph: 6.6

*50-50 mix*
dKH: 179.0ppm (10°)
dGH: 89.5ppm (5°)
ph: 7.8

we used the master test kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. (Doc Wellfish)
you were definately right about the hardness factors in distilled waters.. luckily we saved that old tank water.. i'm confused as to how i can get the same ph readings from the tap *and* the 50-50 mix.  

i'm kinda bummed about my fish store guy. he said he was doing his water changes with the distilled, in what i assume to be well established tanks and has been working with this shop for years. this shop sells only fish. (fresh and marine.) i'm confused, and trying not to be disenchanted.

 

[ronrca]

You are fortunate to use distilled water. Pure water is much softer and more acidic. R/O removes all hardness. Depending on the lfs distillation, he might have different hardness. You can also mix 40/60 to lower hardness and pH still but it depends of your tank situtation like what fish you have. Just be wary of anything the lfs has to say.