Angelfish fry

[lauraf]

Hi all:
I went away for four days and came home last night to find that two of my four white/gold angelfish (maybe ten months old?) in my community tank decided to breed! I didn't even know they were a mating pair. I've never had this before, and wasn't even trying, so I was very chuffed to see all the eggs on an Amazon plant leaf, and both parents going gaga picking over the eggs for fungus (I think that's what they were doing) and blowing on them. They were also terrorizing all the other fish in the tank if they came anywhere near that part of the tank - it was sad/funny to see everyone else huddled on the other side.
This morning those eggs were wiggling and a few were separating from the leaf, only to be, seemingly, gobbled by the erstwhile devoted parents. Going by both google and gut, I decided to try to transfer the still-attached fry into a separate tank to avoid parents and tankmates devouring them at some point or another.
I have now set up a 5g bare tank with sponge filter, heater, thermometer and water from the original tank, and cut off the leaf with the wigglers and transferred it into this new tank (weighted from its stem with an elastic band around a large round rock from the original tank). In the process, several wigglers 'fell off' the leaf and are either floating around at the top, lying on the bottom, or sidled up to the thermometer; most are still attached to the leaf. All are still wiggling.
So, umm, this is my first post, please take it easy on me. Did I A) do the right thing? And B) what do I do now to keep as many of the fry alive and developing?
Thanks!
Laura

 

[anshuman]

YouTube - hatched angelfish in main tank << I was surprised to see this pair of angels guarding their fry and look at how many fish are there.

I guess someone who has experience with breeding will reply here to help you. but i can suggest make sure you are feeding all tankmates and this angel pair plenty of enriched food so they dont go after the remaining fry.

Best of luck, keep us updated .

 

[Lotus]

Yes, you did the right thing in putting the leaf in another tank. The parents may have been repositioning the wigglers, but sometimes they eat them.

Do water changes from the parents' tank every couple of days. I usually use a turkey baster to clean the bottom of the fry tanks, or take water off the top with a cup (to avoid sucking up fry in a gravel vac).

Wait for the fry to be freeswimming and their egg sacs gone (the large yellow colored stomachs) and then feed with fry food. They don't need feeding for probably four of five days from now. When you start feeding them, it's better to do daily water changes (again from the parents' tank water). If you can, do live baby brine shrimp to feed the fry.

 

[lauraf]

Thanks Lotus! Is it normal for the fry that fell off the leaf to be lying on the bottom of the tank instead of swimming around? They are still wiggling . . . .

 

[Lotus]

Yes, it's called the "wiggler" stage. They can't swim yet! As long as they're wiggling, all is well.

In a few days you'll start to see some of them start to swim. It looks sort of like they're jumping when they're at that stage. They don't all develop at the same rate, but you'll see a few do it, then more, then all of them will be swimming.

It's expected that a few won't make it. Don't be surprised if you see a dead one or two at the bottom of the tank. Remove them, if you can, to keep the water clean.

 

[lauraf]

Okay, cool. When they start to swim, is that when I should start feeding them? I have frozen baby brine shrimp. I dissolved a bit of it to see what it looks like, and it's just very, very fine particles . . . .

 

[beckyd]

Ohmigosh! My fish are nearly that old. I had no idea they might spawn without my even seeing them pairing up. Thanks for the warning!!

Good luck!

 

[lauraf]

Also, when should I start doing partial water changes? They have been in the new tank for about 30 hours, and since they haven't been fed anything yet, and I can't tell if there is any excretion happening, should I wait until I start feeding them to do the water changes? And how much water should I remove and replace with water from the accidental-breeding tank every other day?
I am a frantic new mum

 

[Lotus]

You don't need to feed them until they're freeswimming and the egg sacs have disappeared. The egg sacs are big yellow things that look like stomachs. When you feed, try to feed small amounts three or four times a day.

A small daily water change isn't a bad idea, even before you start to feed. Perhaps 10 percent when you're not feeding, and maybe 15 percent daily when you are feeding. Try to remove any debris/poop from the bottom of the tank when you do a water change. Always do the water change from the parents' tank for the first few weeks.

The best thing for fry is frequent feeding and frequent water changes. It's a pain, and quite a bit of work, but you'll get stronger, healthier fry.

 

[lauraf]

Here's an update - and sorry, I tried to take pics, but either my cheap digital camera or the tiny tiny fry are to blame for shots of what looks like a pretty much empty tank
Most of the wigglers have come off the leaf in the last four hours, and have gathered on the bottom of the tank into two different bunches hanging out together. I can see a bit of a coloured area around their bellies - mostly I see their black eyes. I think there might be forty-fifty fry?
Meanwhile, the community tank they came from seems to have a new equilibrium: the breeding pair has reintegrated with the rest of the fish, no longer being psychotic about their previous breeding area. They seemed quite confused for about two hours after the egg-laden leaf disappeared, and spent another twelve hours aggressively defending that part of the tank. Since then, the other two angelfish have started to pick on the two breeders! I guess they can carry grudges
I'll keep on with updates on my angel fry if that's cool. One other question to throw out there: will my breeding pair produce a new batch again soon? Does taking their babes away from them encourage more breeding behaviour, or discourage? I've tried to keep the area in the tank where the Amazon leaf was as undisturbed as possible, although I did prune some decaying leaves on the other side of the tank.
Cheers,
Laura

 

[Lotus]

Your pair will probably lay eggs again in 10 days to two weeks. Once they start, they usually keep on breeding regularly, as long as they're happy. One pair we had laid eggs every two weeks, like clockwork, for several years. As they mature, the spawns get larger. It's not uncommon to have 300 to 400 eggs.

Please, keep us updated!

 

[anshuman]

ahh. I think thats common among egg-laying fishes, once they start spawning, they will keep at it for long time, till something drastic happens like very bad water-condition or extreme water temperatures .

I am seeing same spawning habit in my goldie pair, they are spawning for past two months, like after every 14-15 days.

I like this angelfish behaviour though , guarding the eggs, threatening intruders, then mingling again. Nice . my goldies look v dumb when compared to this, my goldies are like 'omg spawn spawn spawn' everywhere, then 'gobble gobble gobble' eggs. then OMG we are tired and in end swim in tank slowly.

Do keep us updated Laura, and i think you will be able to take pics after a week or so.

 

[lauraf]

Okey dokey, will keep you all posted. It is going too well, I feel there must be a crisis around the corner (noooo, no jinx, no jinx).

 

[Doomhed]

Okey dokey, will keep you all posted. It is going too well, I feel there must be a crisis around the corner (noooo, no jinx, no jinx).

thats a good sign, the only easy spawns I ever had were the ones with a sense of (unearned) impending doom. every time a spawn didnt feel like it was going to collapse at any moment, it did, as soon as I looked away...lol

 

[anshuman]

heh, my 200 + goldie fry are just a 'big assignment' away from total doomage . i really hope i dont get sucked into something big at work or life, which i keep feeling i will , cause i have lots of things going, but i am rooting for this fry batch. hope laura's batch too get big and awesome.

 

[lauraf]

They're swimming!

 

[lauraf]

Okay, they are all free swimming, and any yolk-sac seems to be gone. I did a wee feeding today with thawed baby brine shrimp - I saw a few of the fry actually eat, but mostly the lot seems to be swimming around about 1 - 3 inches off the tank bottom ignoring the food. Have I started feeding too early?
Also, I did a 10% water change - very, very carefully - last night, and two separate 10%ers today with water from the parent tank, trying to suck off any food debris from the tank bottom with a turkey baster. Am I doing this right?

 

[Lotus]

It sounds like you're doing OK. If a few are eating, it's probably fine to feed. Just try to feed three or four times a day, with small amounts of food.

Keeping the poop and uneaten food off the bottom with a turkey baster will really help. I know it's a big pain, but it gives the fry a healthy start.

While you don't have to do it for a while, you might want to start thinking about where you're going to house them when they start outgrowing the 5 gallon tank.

 

[lauraf]

Thanks Lotus - is the frozen baby brine shrimp okay, or do I need to hatch my own live? And I haven't noticed any poop yet on the tank bottom -just the uneaten food and a couple dead fry. When does the poop start?

I wasn't even going to go there about the housing issue until I know that these fry even survive the next few weeks! But I'm going to have to do something, and my husband was a little miffed about the addition of one little 5g tank to our townhouse . . . . Will think on this.

 

[anshuman]

I have to suggest hatched live baby brine shrimps are best for first week for hatch-fry, i have learned this hard way by seeing my first batch of goldie-fry stay thin even on powder feed etc. i have just started giving them since yesterday and they are looking v v lively.

I am sure Lotus will add to this.