Hey

[honeybee105]

Hey I'm Katie and I'm totally new at this whole aquarium thing. My friend (known as Pooky125 here) has gotten me obsessed with this! I fell in love with her 12 gallon eclipse tank I spent half an hour just staring at it. So now I've picked out a 20 gallon that I love and am hoping to purchase soon. Right now I have a two gallon hex with an UGF (which is a pain to clean) that has two African dwarf frogs in it. Everyone here has been unbelievably helpful, I print out everyone's responses to my questions and use them for future referance. Thanks so much! I have one quick question, when i start a new 20 gallon tank is it a wise decision to use the fishless cycle or to just start adding fish every couple weeks? Thanks

                            ~*Katie*~

[JWright]

I'm a big fan of fishless cycle. There's just no reason not to save your fish the stress.

Josh

[colesea]

Seeing as how you are now so well educated as to the benefits/set-backs of both the fishless and fish-using methods to cycling a tank from all the great information you've recieved from this site and others, as well as all the wonderful books you've read, I feel the first thing you can do for yourself as a responsible aquarist and weight all the options to come to the conclusion that is right for you. That's the best way to ensure you enjoy -your- fishtank, and not somebody else's dictated advice <G>.
~~Colesea

[JWright]

Are you accusing me of dictation?

Josh

Hey, always nice to see new faces.
Do what you want to do. I have set up..at least 10 tanks and have only let them cycle without fish for about a week (until all my levels are good).  My water here is really good so I dont have much trouble getting them spot on.  As long as all you levels test fine then why wait? But thats only my opionion and im sure some people will disagree, but hey it would be no fun here if we didnt disagree.
Johnmac smiley*

[JWright]

". . . have only let them cycle without fish for about a week . . ."

Did you add ammonia or just let it sit? If you didn't add a source of ammonia, it didn't cycle.

Josh

[colesea]

Dictating...of course not. Strenuously expressing your opinion maybe, but not dictating  

Hell, I agree with the fishless cycle thing, but you try explaining that to a person who just -promised- her four year old child they got to pick out fish that day.  Most people accept a fish-using cycle because it allows them to have something, anything, whatever in their tank to show off to their friends. When they come back and complain to me "My fish died" I can look them dead in the eye and say "how long have you had your tank and how many fish?" two fish every two weeks, I tell them, and if the count don't add up, snagged! Then they get all belligerant and huff and are more prepared to listen before wasting more money on dead fish. People all over the world like to prove that the LFS employee is just your typical moron, and as you know, there are more moron LFS employees than intelligent ones.

I don't offer seed gravel or water to start a fishless cycle with. Heck, I don't even put my own shop water into my tanks at home. Gravel is not only a great home for the helpful bacteria, but it also is a wonderful place for all those nifty little parasites as well, and any retailer that says "oh, my tanks don't have disease" is totally blowing it out their rear. Nearly all reatailers have disease (like ich for instance) of one sort or another in their tanks, it comes with the territory. It's just that the really good ones are better at cleaning it up before the customer sees it (ie yanking the dead fish before the store opens).  Last thing I need is somebody complaining "your gravel made my fish sick..."

Bacteria in a bottle? I've used the stuff, I don't put much stock in it. I doubt it would help cycle a tank any simply because the bacteria could die of starvation if there is no ammonia/nitrite in the tank to feed it in the first place, provided it was alive in the bottle when you bought it.

Nope, about the best fishless cycle I've seen is exchanging biowheels off of Marineland filters (or sponges off of others brands) that have been run on established tanks for a year or so, and plopping one or two fish in there for a few months. Keeping in mind, however, the biological filtering capacity is only good for the current population of fish.

Besides, how much fun is a hobby where you don't make your own decisions? I take care of enough of my own tanks, I don't wanna be taking care of nobody elses<G>.
~~Colesea

[JWright]

"but you try explaining that to a person who just -promised- her four year old child they got to pick out fish that day"

I worked one day in retail (I was helping a friend out a small sporting goods store), and I never will again. I don't handle stupid and impatient people well... So now I work in tech support, figure that out...

I wish fish stores would require fishless cycle before selling fish for a new tank. That way you're sure the tank can support the fish and you're sure the client has an understanding of "the small portion of the nitrogen fixation cycle that occurs in the biological filter of our aquariums."

I realize this can't happen for practical business reasons, but hey I can dream...

Josh

[Matt Nace]

I always like when Josh says his piece and reminders like
" I'm a big fan of fishless cycle. There's just no reason not to save your fish the stress"

It is someone inputting a different method to everyone. miley*