I started a fish tank about 3 weeks ago. It is a 23 gallon tall. I waited 48 hours to put fish in. I initially put a gourami, platy, and 2 tiger barbs. I waited 2 days and put in a bale shark and a pacu. I noticed the water became cloudy and took a sample to Petsmart. The ammonia level was 7. I used the gravel vacuum and did a 30% water change. 2 days later I used a vacuum again and water change. Retested and ammonia was only down to 6. I added gravel and water from an established tank and added the drops to get rid of ammonia. Waited 2 hours like the bottle said and ammonia hadn't went down at all. Added more drops 2 more times and it still hasn't went down. I tested the tap water and there is no ammonia in it. Water is now clear. Fish are acting great, none have died. feeding once a day. Very active fish. What else can I do??
HELP ammonia level won't go down
- Thread starter stacic8679
- Start date
even though you took stuff from established tank it sounds like your cycling.
unfortuneatly with fish in.
others will have more input
but for now all i can recommend is keep doing water changes,just try to keep same temp of water when doing so.Also treat the water ! i almost forgot to tell you get rid of the chlorine in your tap water
also may want to consider an API Master test kit ( $30.00 ) so you can test yourself.
missfishy has a great website !! all you need to know about cycling
check it out
MissFishy's Guide to Fish
good luck
unfortuneatly with fish in.
others will have more input
but for now all i can recommend is keep doing water changes,just try to keep same temp of water when doing so.Also treat the water ! i almost forgot to tell you get rid of the chlorine in your tap water
also may want to consider an API Master test kit ( $30.00 ) so you can test yourself.
missfishy has a great website !! all you need to know about cycling
check it out
MissFishy's Guide to Fish
good luck
Last edited:
Thanks for the info. That site recommended was helpful. I guess I am just confused because the fish are acting fine. Not gasping, or red streaks or gills, not lethargic at all. I am now wondering if I am getting a false reading since I used the ammonia drops. I have heard this is common. SO am I correct in thinking that if I do the water change every day for a few days and the ammonia level goes back down that I am through cycling and won't have to go through all of this again?
keep doing water changes.
when your cycling you go through stages
when cycling you will have high amonia,then high nitrite, then finally nitrate which means you have cycled
im so glad i got my API kit because i went through all the mistakes
just so nice being able to test water !!!!!!!
i hope all goes well
when your cycling you go through stages
when cycling you will have high amonia,then high nitrite, then finally nitrate which means you have cycled
im so glad i got my API kit because i went through all the mistakes
just so nice being able to test water !!!!!!!
i hope all goes well
You're not done cycling until the ammonia goes up and then comes back down to 0, nitrites go up and then come back down to 0, and then you have nitrates showing up. Also, I would agree that your drops might have given you a false reading.
And, I know you didn't ask about this, but I would take a serious look at your stocking. You've sort of set yourself up for disaster there. First of all, most of those fish are not necessarily hardy enough to survive the cycling process. Also, the general rule of thumb for stocking is 1" of fish (adult size) per gallon of water. You're way over that, since the bala shark (I'm assuming that's what you mean) and the pacu both get huge, and if you have a regular gourami and not a dwarf gourami they get large also. Tiger barbs should be in a school of at least 5-6, or they may become very aggressive. So you should consider either upgrading to a bigger tank soon, or taking most of your fish back to the store and starting over. Hope this helps. Welcome to the tank.
And, I know you didn't ask about this, but I would take a serious look at your stocking. You've sort of set yourself up for disaster there. First of all, most of those fish are not necessarily hardy enough to survive the cycling process. Also, the general rule of thumb for stocking is 1" of fish (adult size) per gallon of water. You're way over that, since the bala shark (I'm assuming that's what you mean) and the pacu both get huge, and if you have a regular gourami and not a dwarf gourami they get large also. Tiger barbs should be in a school of at least 5-6, or they may become very aggressive. So you should consider either upgrading to a bigger tank soon, or taking most of your fish back to the store and starting over. Hope this helps. Welcome to the tank.
bala sharks are for 100G tanks, grow up to 1 foot in length, are VERY active. Hope you got a lid on, with the little space you have for it and the uncycled water, it may jump out, or die first. The pacu needs a 500-1000G tank will grow to 2 feet in length or so, and will eat all your other fish, even though it's really a vegetarian. Good luck
I was starting to think the shark was gonna get too big after I read a little more about it. Funny how the petsmart 'experts" sold me both at the same time and told me they would be great in a 23 gallon tank. So I am going tonight to return the pacu and shark. My 2 weeks is up tomorrow. My guarami is a dwarf so he should be ok. Here is my next question, I will continue to do water changes until the ammonia level goes back down. Then when I get a couple more fish will I go through this cycling again? What kind of fish should I get? I will now have 2 tiger barbs, sunburst platy, and dwarf guarami. Is that enough or could I get a couple more tiger barbs. thanks for everyone's help. As you can tell I am an idiot when it comes to aquariums.
Staci
Staci
Also, stop using the ammonia drops. The reason is that they bind the ammonia, making it unusable for the bacteria, which you actually have to cultivate (feed) in order to cycle the tank. So you're actually preventing the tank from cycling by using those things.
You need to keep ammonia down by water changes alone. If you have an ammonia reading of, say, 7, then after a 50% change you'd still have 3.5, and it would still take more than a 75% change to get it under 1.0, however after that it would be easier to keep in check. Every time ammonia goes above 1.0 you need to do a 50% water change.
Sooner or later ammonia will begin dropping. It will eventually get down to 0. As it drops, nitrite will rise. You have to use water changes to keep nitrite under 1.0 too. After the nitrite goes up and then drops back down to 0, nitrates will appear and your tank will be cycled. Keep nitrates under 20 or so after that.
Couple more points: Don't change out your filter media while your tank is cycling. If it gets clogged, swish it in some dechlorinated water. The bacteria live on your filter media. And, you need to get tests (the drop kind, not the strips) for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; or get an API Master Test Kit.
Also, it may take a couple of months to cycle your tank. You shouldn't add any fish until it is cycled. After that, if you add a fish or two your tank will go through kind of a mini cycle process each time, so you should wait at least a couple of weeks between additions.
You need to keep ammonia down by water changes alone. If you have an ammonia reading of, say, 7, then after a 50% change you'd still have 3.5, and it would still take more than a 75% change to get it under 1.0, however after that it would be easier to keep in check. Every time ammonia goes above 1.0 you need to do a 50% water change.
Sooner or later ammonia will begin dropping. It will eventually get down to 0. As it drops, nitrite will rise. You have to use water changes to keep nitrite under 1.0 too. After the nitrite goes up and then drops back down to 0, nitrates will appear and your tank will be cycled. Keep nitrates under 20 or so after that.
Couple more points: Don't change out your filter media while your tank is cycling. If it gets clogged, swish it in some dechlorinated water. The bacteria live on your filter media. And, you need to get tests (the drop kind, not the strips) for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; or get an API Master Test Kit.
Also, it may take a couple of months to cycle your tank. You shouldn't add any fish until it is cycled. After that, if you add a fish or two your tank will go through kind of a mini cycle process each time, so you should wait at least a couple of weeks between additions.
Ok so we took the shark and pacu back to the store. and bought one of the API tests. now I am even more confused. Did a 30% water change and waited 20 minutes to test. Ammonia was between 2 and 4, PH was 7.4, nitrites were 0, and nitrates were 0. I will do another water change until I can get ammonia down, but from what I have been told my tank hasn't even started to cycle yet. Why is this? Could it be from the ammonia drops I used. Where do I go from here? Sorry for all the questions, but I seem to get the best answers from you all.
The cycle has probably started, but it really sounds like it hasn't gotten very far at all (0 Nitrites). You have yourself a catch-22. Performing water changes and adding conditioner to eliminate Ammonia is essential for the health of your fish, but those activities will make the time your tank takes to cycle much longer. You are going to hate this, but you should really think of returning all of the fish and continue your cycle fishless. You are honestly looking at over a month of cycle time with fish in (daily water changes, etc.), all the while working your butt off to keep your fish alive, and they could all die. Just my suggestion.
I'm glad you were able to return the fish. It's better for your hobby (not mine I just give advice *SUPERSMIL). I saw in your post above that the store keepers recommended you the bala shark and pacu, and it looks pretty obvious they just wanted to get you out the door with fish, for their profit (pretty typical). Just to remind, never buy into the fish store keepers advice, unless they have a known rep. It's better off to do your own research (I know it's a pain, but it saves you money and irritation overtime).
Cycling can be tricky with fish, and not all your fish may survive the cycle. A Fish in cycle will also take a little longer.
So in a nutshell this is what is going on in your tank.
Your tank water is bacteria-less. You have added fish to the tank. The fish pee and poo in your new tank water. Their pee and poo is converted into ammonia, spiking the ammonia levels in your tank. This is poisonous to the fish if the content is too high, but you need ammonia in the tank. The ammonia will break down into nitrates, then into nitrites (I may have this backwards). Eventually the bacteria will develop that keeps this process of breaking down ammonia going, and when it is complete, your ammonia, nitrates, and nitrates will drop to near 0, usually indicating your tank is cycled. Here's the tricky part. Since your tank is not cycled and not breaking down ammonia like it should, the content will get too high and poison your fish, so you do water changes more frequently during the cycle. The water changes lower the ammonia content, but at the same time delay the cycle process because you are removing some of the good bacteria too. So basically everytime you do a water change (which you need to do otherwise ammonia levels will kill your fish), you create a mini-cycle within your cycle. Get it? It's confusing I know. Eventually, the tank will have a bacterial bloom (cloudy water), at which point you just continue the water changes. Eventually the water clears up, signifying the end of the bloom and completion of the cycle. This is a pretty general explanation of how it works, but I thought you should here it this way before someone else delivers a more scientific explanation. I wouls explain the fishless cycle too, but there is no need since you're not doing it
GOODLUCK!
Cycling can be tricky with fish, and not all your fish may survive the cycle. A Fish in cycle will also take a little longer.
So in a nutshell this is what is going on in your tank.
Your tank water is bacteria-less. You have added fish to the tank. The fish pee and poo in your new tank water. Their pee and poo is converted into ammonia, spiking the ammonia levels in your tank. This is poisonous to the fish if the content is too high, but you need ammonia in the tank. The ammonia will break down into nitrates, then into nitrites (I may have this backwards). Eventually the bacteria will develop that keeps this process of breaking down ammonia going, and when it is complete, your ammonia, nitrates, and nitrates will drop to near 0, usually indicating your tank is cycled. Here's the tricky part. Since your tank is not cycled and not breaking down ammonia like it should, the content will get too high and poison your fish, so you do water changes more frequently during the cycle. The water changes lower the ammonia content, but at the same time delay the cycle process because you are removing some of the good bacteria too. So basically everytime you do a water change (which you need to do otherwise ammonia levels will kill your fish), you create a mini-cycle within your cycle. Get it? It's confusing I know. Eventually, the tank will have a bacterial bloom (cloudy water), at which point you just continue the water changes. Eventually the water clears up, signifying the end of the bloom and completion of the cycle. This is a pretty general explanation of how it works, but I thought you should here it this way before someone else delivers a more scientific explanation. I wouls explain the fishless cycle too, but there is no need since you're not doing it
GOODLUCK!
Get some live plants. Every fishtank should have at least one small plant in it because it eats fish waste(ammonia, nitrite, nitrates) and co2 and releases oxygen as well as inhibit algae growth.
Amazon swords will use ammonia directly from the water column and make cycling easier on the fish. Water sprite, while messy to take care of will quickly reduce ammonia levels
In a pinch, Ammo Chips, also known as zeolite or water softener will directly remove ammonia from the water and release sodium ions and reduce Ph. Ammonia at 6.8 Ph is less harmful than ammonia at 7.2 ph. Contrary to popular beleif, Ammo Chips will not starve the filter.
Amazon swords will use ammonia directly from the water column and make cycling easier on the fish. Water sprite, while messy to take care of will quickly reduce ammonia levels
In a pinch, Ammo Chips, also known as zeolite or water softener will directly remove ammonia from the water and release sodium ions and reduce Ph. Ammonia at 6.8 Ph is less harmful than ammonia at 7.2 ph. Contrary to popular beleif, Ammo Chips will not starve the filter.
I got the ammonia level below 2 last night by doing the water changes. I know that is still too high but that is better than 6-8. I will do another couple water changes tonight and hope it goes down some more. At the pet store last ngiht they wanted me to get some sort of carbon zeolite gravel stuff to put in the filter. I decided to hold off on that for now. Fish still seem to be acting fine. SO that's a good thing. Thanks for all the help. Staci
don't give up! the hobby is REALLY EASY if you just keep simple things in mind.
1) don't take advice from fish storekeepers, they are generally wrong and only want your money.
2) most experienced posters/keepers on this site, like me will recommend to you the safest, easiest methods for fishkeeping, meaning we will give you the adequate stocking suggestions on what kind of fish you can keep based on what size tank you have, etc. Others may say things like you can keep cichlids in a 20-30G tank. While this may have proven cases, it is generally difficult and has a higher fail %, so we do not recommend it. I can see how getting advice online can be tedious because everyone has different opinions, but do not fully explain the possible outcomes or guarantees.
3) Start in this order for next time.
1 --> Research the fish you are interested in. See if they fit your budget based on caring for them such as food, and necessary equipment (tank heater, filter, rocks/caves, driftwood, plants, etc) Don't forget a water test kit. Get the master kit, as test strips are quite faulty.
2 --> Put everything together on paper and see if it works. Fish compatibility stocking issues, etc.
3 --> Get all the hardware first. Set up your tank, heater, filter, add water and begin your cycle. A fishless cycle is easier because you risk losing NO fish, and it doesn't take as long. Takes about a month. With no fish, you will need a source of bacteria. Stores sell bottled cycling fluid to get you started. Other experts know the right kind, I've had tanks for over a year and my first one was a fish in cycle, i managed to use bacteria from that tank to jumpstart my other tank. If you still have your fish, you are going through what is known as a fish-in cycle. Do regular water changes I would say 2-3 times a week about 25% and get that water test kit so you can monitor the ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels. You should be having an ammonia spike right now, and the water changes will help keep it down. Eventually everything will settle down and the A/N/N levels will drop to near 0, this could take months to complete. So until then you will need to watch your tank carefully. Even after it cycles you should be changing the water on a weekly basis. How much depends on the bioload in your tank.
Hope this helps, and goodluck. Don't give up, but be selective of the advice you tank and know the possible outcomes/consequences for every choice.
1) don't take advice from fish storekeepers, they are generally wrong and only want your money.
2) most experienced posters/keepers on this site, like me will recommend to you the safest, easiest methods for fishkeeping, meaning we will give you the adequate stocking suggestions on what kind of fish you can keep based on what size tank you have, etc. Others may say things like you can keep cichlids in a 20-30G tank. While this may have proven cases, it is generally difficult and has a higher fail %, so we do not recommend it. I can see how getting advice online can be tedious because everyone has different opinions, but do not fully explain the possible outcomes or guarantees.
3) Start in this order for next time.
1 --> Research the fish you are interested in. See if they fit your budget based on caring for them such as food, and necessary equipment (tank heater, filter, rocks/caves, driftwood, plants, etc) Don't forget a water test kit. Get the master kit, as test strips are quite faulty.
2 --> Put everything together on paper and see if it works. Fish compatibility stocking issues, etc.
3 --> Get all the hardware first. Set up your tank, heater, filter, add water and begin your cycle. A fishless cycle is easier because you risk losing NO fish, and it doesn't take as long. Takes about a month. With no fish, you will need a source of bacteria. Stores sell bottled cycling fluid to get you started. Other experts know the right kind, I've had tanks for over a year and my first one was a fish in cycle, i managed to use bacteria from that tank to jumpstart my other tank. If you still have your fish, you are going through what is known as a fish-in cycle. Do regular water changes I would say 2-3 times a week about 25% and get that water test kit so you can monitor the ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels. You should be having an ammonia spike right now, and the water changes will help keep it down. Eventually everything will settle down and the A/N/N levels will drop to near 0, this could take months to complete. So until then you will need to watch your tank carefully. Even after it cycles you should be changing the water on a weekly basis. How much depends on the bioload in your tank.
Hope this helps, and goodluck. Don't give up, but be selective of the advice you tank and know the possible outcomes/consequences for every choice.
I agree with Jo3. You don't need the zeolyte or whatever they were recommending, and if you got the ammonia down below 2 and the fish seem to be acting fine, you're on the right track. I also agree that plants can just complicate things unless you're willing to put in the extra effort/money to maintain them. Rotting plants aren't helpful for a tank. So, hang in there. It really is an enjoyable hobby once you get over the initial frustration of cycling. Also, thank you so much for taking those fish back and actually listening to us, or at least logically and reasonably considering what we say. You have no idea how frustrating it is when people ask for help and then ignore it just because they want to. If they do research and decide to try something different, that's one thing, but ignoring it is another. So, anyway, welcome to the tank and let us know how you're progressing.