Peta says"Fishkeeping is bad"

[big54bob]

MFK Fragile tropical fish, who were born to dwell in the majestic seas and forage among brilliantly colored coral reefs, suffer miserably when forced to spend their lives in glass aquariums. The same is true of river fish. Robbed of their natural habitats and denied the ability to travel freely, they must swim around in the same few cubic inches of water over and over.

Where Fish Really Come From
The popularity of keeping tropical fish has created a virtually unregulated industry that catches and breeds as many fish as possible with little regard for the animals themselves. While many species of coral are protected under the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species, most of the fish who end up in aquariums are not.(1)

An estimated 95 percent of saltwater fish sold in pet shops came from the wild, mostly from the waters around Indonesia, the Philippines, Fiji, and other Pacific islands.(2) Collectors douse the coral reefs with cyanide, which is ingested by the fish who live there, and as reported in Scientific American, “[t]he resulting asphyxiation stuns some fish and sends others into spasms, making them easy to grab by hand or net.”(3) Half the affected fish die on the reef, and 40 percent of those who survive the initial poisoning die before they reach an aquarium.(4) Cyanide also kills the coral reefs themselves, and marine biologists rank it as one of the biggest dangers in Southeast Asian waters.(5)

Goldfish are usually raised in giant tubs on fish farms that raise as many as 250 million fish per year.(6) These animals are sold to zoos, pet stores, and bait shops, and many are doomed to live in plastic bags or bowls, neither of which provide the space or oxygen that goldfish need. In 2004, the city of Monza, Italy, banned the keeping of goldfish in bowls because the containers do not meet the needs of the animals and because, as one sponsor of the law pointed out, bowls give fish “a distorted view of reality.”(7)

Some fish farms are seeking new market niches by creating fish breeds that would never occur in nature, treating fish as ornaments instead of living animals. Some breeders even “paint” fish by injecting fluorescent dyes into the animals’ bodies or altering their genetic makeup to make them more attractive to buyers.(8)

Fish Can Speak, Make Tools, and Think
Fish have cognitive abilities that equal and sometimes surpass those of nonhuman primates. They can recognize individuals, use tools, and maintain complex social relationships.(9) Biologists wrote in Fish and Fisheries that fish are “steeped in social intelligence, pursuing Machiavellian strategies of manipulation, punishment and reconciliation, exhibiting stable cultural traditions, and co-operating to inspect predators and catch food.”(10)

Fish communicate with one another through a range of low-frequency sounds—from buzzes and clicks to yelps and sobs. These sounds, which are audible to humans only with the use of special instruments, communicate emotional states such as alarm or delight and help with courtship.(11) The pumps and filters necessary in many home aquariums can interfere with this communication. “[A]t the least, we’re disrupting their communication; at worst, we’re driving them bonkers,” says ichthyologist Phillip Lobel.(12)

What You Can Do
Please don’t support the tropical fish trade by purchasing fish. If you enjoy watching fish, consider downloading one of the many colorful and realistic fish computer screensavers available on the Web. Don’t support businesses or fairs that give fish away in contests or promotions. In 2004, legislation was introduced in the U.K. that, if passed, will make it illegal to give fish as “prizes” or sell animals to children under the age of 16 and will also ensure that guardians provide a “suitable environment” for animals.(13) A similar law is in effect in Reggio Emilia, Italy.(14)

Siamese fighting fish, who are often sold as “decorations” or party favors, are fighting for their lives as their popularity grows. Pet shops, discount superstores, florists, and even online catalogs sell Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens) in tiny cups or flower vases to consumers who are often uneducated about proper betta care. Many people mistakenly believe that betta fish must be confined alone and that they can survive without being fed in a so-called “complete ecosystem” that consists of nothing more than a vase and a plant. As a result, fish are being sentenced to dull, lonely lives and slow deaths by starvation. These tiny containers are not suitable for any fish. While betta males do not get along well with each other, they are able to live with other types of fish in a “community” aquarium.

Biologists say that there is no safe way to return captive fish to their natural environments—which are often located in a completely different region of the world—because of the difficulty in locating such a habitat and the possibility of introducing disease to the other fish there. Researchers have found many species of non-native fish, including predatory species, living off the coast of Florida, and they attribute these populations to careless aquarium owners.(15) These fish pose a real threat to native species. Never flush fish down the toilet in the hopes of “freeing” them, as seen in the popular movie Finding Nemo. Even if a fish survived the shock of being put into the swirling fresh water, he or she would die a painful death in the plumbing system or at the water treatment plant.(16)

If you already have fish, you can make their lives easier by providing them with an environment that is as much like their natural habitat as possible. While captive fish can never live natural lives, the following tips will help ensure that they are as happy as possible:

• The more space that fish have, the happier and healthier they will be. Their needs can vary, so check with an expert or consult a good fish book or expert to determine their requirements. One general guideline is that you should provide 3 gallons for every 1 inch of fish.(17)
• Treat tap water properly before putting it in the aquarium, as most municipal water has chlorine in it, which can kill fish. The type of chemicals that you should use depends on your area’s water. Consult with a local tropical fish supply store to determine the proper treatment.
• Different types of fish require different pH levels. Check the pH level daily for the first month and weekly thereafter.
• A filter to remove waste particles and noxious chemicals from the water is essential. Live plants help with this task and provide oxygen, shelter, hiding places, and the occasional snack.
• A properly working air pump is necessary to provide oxygen.
• Fish need a constant temperature, generally between 68°F and 76°F, but you should check with a fish supply store for information that is specific to the type of fish that you are keeping.(18) Automatic aquarium heaters monitor the water temperature and turn the heater on and off as needed. Attaching a small thermometer to the tank will help you ensure that the heater is functioning properly.
• The natural waste of fish emits ammonia, which can accumulate to toxic levels, so clean the tank regularly, but never empty the tank completely. Be sure to clean the glass well with a pad or a brush to prevent algae growth.
• Create places for the fish to hide in and explore. Ceramic objects, natural rocks, and plants work well. Make sure that all objects are thoroughly cleaned and disinfected before they are put into the tank. Do not use metal objects, as they will rust.
• Be aware of the environment outside the aquarium. Suddenly switching on a bright light in a dark room can startle fish, and vibrations from a television or a stereo can alarm and stress them.
• Keep all harmful chemicals away from the aquarium. Cigarette smoke, paint fumes, and aerosol sprays can be toxic if they are absorbed into the water.
• The aquarium should be in a spot where temperature and light are constant and controllable. Tropical fish supply stores may be able to advise you on the best amount of light for the fish you are keeping. Remember that direct sunlight and drafts from nearby doors or windows can change the water temperature, and fumes from a nearby kitchen or workshop can injure the fish.
• Don’t overfeed! Uneaten food and waste material are broken down into ammonia and nitrites, which are toxic. One expert recommends providing only as much food as your fish can eat in 30 seconds.(19)
• If a fish seems sick or lethargic, take him or her to a vet. Fish can be medicated, anesthetized, given shots, and operated on, just like other animals. Take along a separate sample of the tank water.
• Fish enjoy companionship. If you have a single fish, check with friends and neighbors to find another loner to adopt—but don’t support the fish trade by going to a dealer.

Some is true, but fish enjoy companionship always? Remember to get your snakeheads, electric eels and lungfish plenty of company. 3 gallons for every inch of fish too? That should apply to MOST fish, not including eels or eel-like fish.

Also according to them DONT PURCHASE ANY FISH!

Im not saying they are complety wrong jus pointing out they are a little extreme..

So what do you thinK? Acording to them i could keep a foot long RHOM pirana in a 30gal.

Discuss

[Cichlid-Man]

Where Fish Really Come From
The popularity of keeping tropical fish has created a virtually unregulated industry that catches and breeds as many fish as possible with little regard for the animals themselves. While many species of coral are protected under the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species, most of the fish who end up in aquariums are not.(1)

An estimated 95 percent of saltwater fish sold in pet shops came from the wild, mostly from the waters around Indonesia, the Philippines, Fiji, and other Pacific islands.(2) Collectors douse the coral reefs with cyanide, which is ingested by the fish who live there, and as reported in Scientific American, “[t]he resulting asphyxiation stuns some fish and sends others into spasms, making them easy to grab by hand or net.”(3) Half the affected fish die on the reef, and 40 percent of those who survive the initial poisoning die before they reach an aquarium.(4) Cyanide also kills the coral reefs themselves, and marine biologists rank it as one of the biggest dangers in Southeast Asian waters.(5)

Goldfish are usually raised in giant tubs on fish farms that raise as many as 250 million fish per year.(6) These animals are sold to zoos, pet stores, and bait shops, and many are doomed to live in plastic bags or bowls, neither of which provide the space or oxygen that goldfish need. In 2004, the city of Monza, Italy, banned the keeping of goldfish in bowls because the containers do not meet the needs of the animals and because, as one sponsor of the law pointed out, bowls give fish “a distorted view of reality.”(7)

Some fish farms are seeking new market niches by creating fish breeds that would never occur in nature, treating fish as ornaments instead of living animals. Some breeders even “paint” fish by injecting fluorescent dyes into the animals’ bodies or altering their genetic makeup to make them more attractive to buyers.(8)

I actually agree with them and am not a fan of any of this.

MFK Fragile tropical fish, who were born to dwell in the majestic seas and forage among brilliantly colored coral reefs, suffer miserably when forced to spend their lives in glass aquariums. The same is true of river fish. Robbed of their natural habitats and denied the ability to travel freely, they must swim around in the same few cubic inches of water over and over.

Problem is a lot of our freshwater fish are tank raised, how are we robbing a fish of their natural habitats if they never had them to begin with.

Originally Posted by big54bob

So what do you thinK? Acording to them i could keep a foot long RHOM pirana in a 30gal.

Discuss

"general guideline" bob. Meaning it does not work with every situation.

[big54bob]

But this rule is pretty much inaccurate half the time.


More PETA quotes.

Fish talk to each other with squeaks, squeals, and other low-frequency sounds that humans can hear only with special instruments.

• Fish like to be touched and often gently rub against one another—like a cat weaving in and out of your legs.

• Some fish tend well-kept gardens, encouraging the growth of tasty algae and weeding out the types they don't like.

• Like birds, many fish build nests where they raise their babies; others collect little rocks off the seafloor to make hiding places where they can rest.

• Some fish woo potential partners by singing to them, but male sand gobies, tiny fish who live along the European coast, play "Mr. Mom," building and guarding nests and fanning the eggs with their fins to create a current of fresh, oxygenated water.

[brian1973]

Ok this is a bit long winded, it is my views and opinions, if you take the time to read it you may agree or you may disagree, I am not trying to debate anything I am just giving my opinions based on my life, education, and observations.

This is a perfect example of how PETA could use it's money and power to work with and help responsible exotic animal keepers make changes, but IMO they use it to make all of "us" look like we are supporting the degredation of the earths natural environments. I will say it again, the leaders in breeding endangerd and exotic animals are many times the amatuer aquarist/hobbiest. All zoo's and aquariums that are members of the AZA are very much involved in breeding and expanding the gene pool of endangered species of wildlife, but they have to choose due to funding what is more important, the bengal tiger or the redlaced darter, they just dont have the time or the funding in many cases to breed these harder species. If PETA would pull their heads out of their 5th point of contact thy would realize that many of us in the exotic animal hobbies are trying to replicate natural evironments as best we can, we are trying to educate our children, propagate species for the future even if it's in captivity,we are the true conservationalists. This goes along with hunting and fishing, who truly understands the behaviors of deer, a deer hunter. Who understands the behaviors of bass, walleye, catfish, etc. the fisherman that specifically targets that species. Now it would be naive to believe that every hunter and fisherman truly cares about the animals they go after, the problem as I see it is we as a community of ethical animal keepers need to be the ones that make a stand to condemn the unethical treatment/destruction of natural resources. Ever notice that Petco and Petsmart do not sell iguanas anymore, this was because of people in the herp community that stood up and made a stand against the mis information and abuse these animals recieved.
The other problem is that I dont believe PETA truly understands the "nature" of life, predators eat prey. In most home aquaria predator and prey species never come into contact. The natural environment is not a stress free life, the fact is a young fish in reality is probably chased and almost eaten numerous times a day. Many people would argue that thy have more room to get away in a lake, but the fact is smaller fish stay in one area, they do not swim around enjoying a 100 acre pond they stay in the same general vicinity that they are safe in, open water is not safe for most fish. Next time you go fishing catch a bluegill, throw it back and come back the next day and fish in the same spot, there a 99% chance you will catch that same fish again, I have done it, for 5 days in a row I have caught the same fish out of the same 4ft area.

It is our job as the custodians of nature to ensure it is around for our children and grand children to enjoy in both the natural environment and in captivity, this can only be accomplished by ethical conservation which IMO also means ethical exotic animal pet practices.

I hunt, I fish, I eat what I kill. I also feel that plants are living creatures and "feel", just because they do not have a central nervous system as PETA puts it on there website doesnt mean they do not "feel". IMO any living lifeform has some measure of feeling just because we do not understand them doesnt mean it isnt there.

Sorry about the rant..hopefully it makes sense to those that chose to read it. I am not trying to debate the ethics of hunting or fishing I am mearly saying the majority of hunters and fisherman respect and truly understand the prey they are targeting.

[TokinDroFoShoYo]

i think they shouldnt douse he coral reefs, thats just human being at the prime right there!


also the painted fish is disgusting, ive never boughten a painted fish and i never will endorse the painted fish bussiness.
plus who really want a fish with" I luv NY" taged on the sides, thats horible

[dermx]

Oh no not another PETA thread.....

brian1973, i see what you are saying. And it exemplifies the responsible ones out there. The unfortunate fact here is that for every great aquarist out there, there are five more newbies heading to wal mart to buy a 5g tank and cram many fish in.
Compare the number of GREAT local fish stores and pet stores you have been to versus the bad. These are all business...petco, petsmart, walmart, other chains, and the many awful (sometimes worse than the chain stores) private places sentence an exponential amount of fish to death each day. This is where PETA gets their logic....

I understand that hunter and fishermen are an important outdoor usergroup when it comes to conservation and advocation. But all it takes is one poacher to ruin their reputation, or some drunk to ruin time spent in open space for everyone else (hikers, horseback riders, bikers, other hunters, whatever...).

And for every cluster of responsible fisherman, there is a corporate mega vessel drag netting and bottom trawling..........decimating everything in its path.

A lot of negativity there, but thats the way it is. Everyone on this site is more than likely responsible and caring...but oh so many out there are not, or just don't know any better.

Oh and just for clarification...petco does sell iguanas. At least the one near me does, not petsmart though. They do not sell large exotic birds anymore though...but PETA was responsible for that.

[brian1973]

Originally Posted by dermx

Oh no not another PETA thread.....

brian1973, i see what you are saying. And it exemplifies the responsible ones out there. The unfortunate fact here is that for every great aquarist out there, there are five more newbies heading to wal mart to buy a 5g tank and cram many fish in.
Compare the number of GREAT local fish stores and pet stores you have been to versus the bad. These are all business...petco, petsmart, walmart, other chains, and the many awful (sometimes worse than the chain stores) private places sentence an exponential amount of fish to death each day. This is where PETA gets their logic....

I understand that hunter and fishermen are an important outdoor usergroup when it comes to conservation and advocation. But all it takes is one poacher to ruin their reputation, or some drunk to ruin time spent in open space for everyone else (hikers, horseback riders, bikers, other hunters, whatever...).

And for every cluster of responsible fisherman, there is a corporate mega vessel drag netting and bottom trawling..........decimating everything in its path.

A lot of negativity there, but thats the way it is. Everyone on this site is more than likely responsible and caring...but oh so many out there are not, or just don't know any better.

Oh and just for clarification...petco does sell iguanas. At least the one near me does, not petsmart though. They do not sell large exotic birds anymore though...but PETA was responsible for that.

I will look into the Petco iguana thing but I know the Petcos in my area do not, according to a friend that works there corporate policy was no iguanas but maybe thats regional. I know my petsmarts sell large birds still, not sure about Petco though.

You are very correct on the one makes the many look bad theory but it is our responsibility as a group of responsible pet owners to band together and fight to keep our hobbies intact, and to open the eyes that one doesn't make a group. That one poacher is the rarity not the norm.

I can not comment on the drag netting of commercial fishing because I just do not know enough about it.

The problem is that IMO the members of PETA either do not want to see the truth or they do not take the time to learn the truth, they see a cause and run with it not seeing past the "cause".

[blue_ram]

Peta is a like a NY yenta, all they do si talk about how everyone does bad things. Never do they do anything to make a situation better.

There is an old saying: if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. Peta si part fo the problem because they are not doing anything to solve the problem yet they have the resources to do so.

Keeping pets, visiting zos, visiting seaworld etc... are wonderful ways for people to learn about nature and it raises awareness of conservation especially for our children who may not have a "wild" for animals to live in the future.

[dermx]

Hmm, well its good to see some control over what the chain stores sell.

One PETA success story?
PETA AND PETCO ANNOUNCE AGREEMENT

[CAPSLOCK]

Collectors douse the coral reefs with cyanide, which is ingested by the fish who live there, and as reported in Scientific American, “[t]he resulting asphyxiation stuns some fish and sends others into spasms, making them easy to grab by hand or net.”(3) Half the affected fish die on the reef, and 40 percent of those who survive the initial poisoning die before they reach an aquarium.(4) Cyanide also kills the coral reefs themselves, and marine biologists rank it as one of the biggest dangers in Southeast Asian waters.(5)

I believe that using cyanide is largely illegal almost everywhere now... I agree that using cyanide is cruel and extremely harmful to the reef, but they also make is sound like that's the only way all SW fish are collected. This is the big problem I have with PETA, they try to make every situation sound like the worst case scenario is the main method.

Goldfish are usually raised in giant tubs on fish farms that raise as many as 250 million fish per year.(6) These animals are sold to zoos, pet stores, and bait shops, and many are doomed to live in plastic bags or bowls, neither of which provide the space or oxygen that goldfish need.

I also despise the phrase "many are doomed to live in plastic bags" - how many people seriously have a fish that lives in a plastic bag? Or is it now cruel to ship fish in a bag?