New Family Member, Pics to Come Soon.....

[Lonewolfblue]

Agility is great too, as well as Rally and Obedience. Rally is just a funner, less relaxed version of Obedience, where it's made more fun for the dog and the handler. After Rally, I would also like to get Betty's Obedience Title as well, and then maybe on to either Agility or Flyball. Rally is really fun. Copy and paste all the Rally steps I have above, and start working with them. Those are only for Rally-O Novice. I think Rally-O Advanced, which is off-leash, has 54 different steps that they can choose from. Out of the 32 steps, when you go for Rally Novice, you will go through 10-15 stations I believe, and it can be any combination of steps from the 32 listed. So it's not always the same.

[Lonewolfblue]

I got 3 great DVD's yesterday. One is for aggressive dog behaviour and how to correct it. It's called Cujo Meets Pavlov! It's great. It's a 6 hour DVD set. Welcome to Dogwise.com

Also, I got a DVD that shows you step by step how a dog behaviourist does a full assessment on the dogs at the shelters. It's called Am I Safe: The Art & Science of Canine Behavior Assessments. Awsome DVD. It's almost a full 4 hours. Welcome to Dogwise.com

I also got The Dog Whisperer. Welcome to Dogwise.com Great training DVD. And no, this one is NOT Cesar Milan. And this guy calls himself the first dog whisperer, and his techniques are completely the opposite of Cesars. Doesn't use any aggressive, hitting, putting down, shocking, etc. He only uses Praise, treats, and toys.

[Big Vine]

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

And no, this one is NOT Cesar Milan. And this guy calls himself the first dog whisperer, and his techniques are completely the opposite of Cesars. Doesn't use any aggressive, hitting, putting down, shocking, etc. He only uses Praise, treats, and toys.

Wow, is that what you think Cesar Millan is doing when he works with animals---esp. ones with aggression/dominance issues?

BV

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by Big Vine

Wow, is that what you think Cesar Millan is doing when he works with animals---esp. ones with aggression/dominance issues?

BV

No, that is what the other Dog Whisperer says. But there are things that I disagree on with Cesar from the point of the average dog. Cesar's techniques are more for Rehabilitating Aggressive/Problem dogs, but people take his techniques and use them on their average, non-problem dogs, and thus create new problems. An example, in the dog forum, a person was wanting to know why when he puts his dog down into a submissive state, why does the problem not go away? Well, when he further explained, he was trying to give his dog a command from a distance, and the dog would not do it, so he would go and put the dog down. By the time that person gets to the dog and puts the dog down, do you think the dog really knows why he's being put down? Not at all, and thus, the dog gets very confused and has no idea why why he's being put down to the ground. The dog will also try to figure out why, and will often use the last thing it remembers, which could be a good thing, and then relates being put to the ground to that thing that was actually good. Also, just because the dog does not follow a command doesn't deserve to be put to the ground anyways. So yes, I think Cesars show is creating more problems than good. And that's because the average public doesn't get trained properly as to when and why Cesars techniques should be used, or not be used. Overall, I would not use Cesars stuff anymore myself, unless I was working with a PROBLEM dog. Betty might be a problem, but she's not what I would consider a Cesars problem type dog and using his techniques should NOT be used with her.

I hope I got my point across, lol. It's like Cesar says in most of his shows, he is NOT a trainer, but rather a rehabilitator. So what does that mean? Well, it means that he takes huge problems, and tries to get those problem dogs to what you might call a clean slate to where then you can go to a trainer and begin proper training and forming GOOD BEHAVIOR. Cesar does not train or form GOOD BEHAVIOR, but rather gets you to that CLEAN SLATE where you can start new with a dog that you thought would never be a good dog in society.

Now, for a dog like Betty, this is what my view is. The DVD Cujo Meets Pavlov! is exactly what she needs. This Seminar is 6 hours long, and is devoted to aggressive dogs, and the gal that does this seminar is one of the top animal behaviorists in the country, and she's right here on the West Coast. Betty's problems are not huge problems, but rather problems that require behavior adjustments. It is based more on confusion than aggression. What I've been told is that she is getting her aggression and herding instincts crossed, and we just need to uncross those behaviors. Kind of sounds odd, but if you look at how she acts when she's in fear, she gets low to the ground, which is a herding behavior. But then she's got herding linked with fear. So we just need to break that link, which isn't going to be easy, but is doable. And after watching that Seminar, I have to go back to square 1 and start from scratch, as some of the things that we've been working on was actually strengthening that fear/herding bond. I think we are now on the correct path, and in the spring when I take my next vacation, hopefully Betty will be on the road to becoming more successful and I may take her to the coast and actually get her evaluated by that animal behaviorist. It's expensive, but if it gets us on the right path, then the money will be well spent.

[FishGeek]

Betty is lucky to have gotten a home with you! Im so amzed at al the work you are putting into her. Most people woul have given up already. Its so nice to read your posts about her improvement and your discoveries. Sry had to get that out Good Luck!!

[Big Vine]

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

No, that is what the other Dog Whisperer says.

Thanks for the clarification.
I thought that might have been the case, but I wanted to hear it from you...just to make sure.

All in all, I agree completely with your views on Cesar Millan's rehabilitation techniques and how the majority of dog owners out there really aren't trained on how to implement his techniques properly---and that's assuming, of course, that their situation warrants using any of Cesar's approaches in the first place with their particular animals (which clearly that is not always the case)!

I don't want to get your thread too off-track by going into detail, so I'll just sum up by saying that we've managed to put many of Cesar's techniques to good use with our 'stubborn' pug, Willow. She has already been through obedience training, and the fundamentals of maintaining her 'good manners' are put into practice on a daily basis. She is not an aggressive dog by any means, yet she is still able to benefit from some of Millan's techniques...as are her human masters.

Granted, I am no stranger to working with dogs either (and again, I'll skip the details there). Overall, I'm very comfortable applying many of Cesar's techniques wherever they're warranted, but I can certainly see how his approaches certainly are not for your average dog owner to run out and implement on their own with very little or no guidance; not to mention very little to no prior experience in working with dogs.


Back to Betty...
I'm glad to hear you're making some progress. I haven't read through the entire thread, but I've been checking in from time to time, and it's nice to be able to track your progression with her.

BV

[FishGeek]

I agree with you BV. I use some of his techniques myself. Chance is a dog that if he gets too much praise for doing something good he gets over excited and outta control. So I use praise for him but I also let him know when what he is doing is unexceptable (with my voice, noises, or a slight touch with foot) Not all dogs are able to handle certian methods of training and everyone has their own veiws but I believe that a combination of the two methods are what works the best for me.

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, I don't have a lot of time to write right now, but will give you a simplified version of what Kathy teaches in her dvd, Cujo Meets Pavlov. She goes over that there are 2 stimuluses that dogs work off of, one is conditional and the other is unconditional. And it basically states that the behavior you want is the sum of the 2, then it works it's way backwards. This is the dogs thought process, it always goes backwards. To give an example, lets say your dog is dog aggressive. So, to correct the behavior, you begin with the Conditional, which is your dog just sitting there with no dogs present. Then you add in the Unconditional, you bring another dog into view for only a short period. Here's the trick, as soon as your dog sees the other dog, you open up the buffet and feed the dog something he really likes. And you feed until the other dog disappears. Make sure it's safe for you and the other dog and that your dog won't lunge at the other dog. If it's 50 yards, then you start at 50 yard plus 1 step. Then you slowly work your way closer. This will in turn work it's way backwards where your dog begins to understand, when another dog appears, the buffet will open or I will win the lottery.

Once you've worked this into the dog, then you can begin for reform the dogs behavior and linking the food to something that's good.

It's an awsome DVD set. It's 6 hours long.

Well, I'm out of time, need to get to work before I'm late, lol. I might talk a little more about it later.

[Lonewolfblue]

So basically, it's like she says, the 2nd stimulus is what is most important, and that is first seeing the other dog, then lots of food becomes available.

[Lonewolfblue]

We went on a walk today, a place where I thought there would be no dogs, and off-leash. Because of the snow, not a lot of people ever go here. We were walking down by a part of the park where the ball fields are, and it's surrounded by chain link fence. We were going along a fence where there were some houses on the other side, and all was well. We kept walking til we got near the other end of the fields and turned around and came back. What I didn't know was at one of the houses, there was a male min pin. He came out barking, and Betty went up to the fence. The min pin seemed afraid at first, then came up to the fence as well. I tried calling Betty, but she did not listen. Then the dogs started sniffing through the chain link fence, and then the min pin started running along the fence and Betty followed. Normally by now, Betty would be wanting to attack, but her body posture showed no sign of fear or aggression at all. Looking at her ears, body, and tail, there was no fear at all. And instead of her tail wagging high and erradically, it was wagging down in the middle, and very calmly, and her body showed no signs of a stiff body at all. She did not bark at all, and was more than willing to sniff and play. Then the min pin started barking, and did the play bow, and started running back and forth up and down the 100 feet or so of fence line. And Betty played along with. It was great. The only time I saw any aggression was when I decided it was enough and we had to go and I walked up to her and got her collar to put her leash on, then she mildly tried to lunge at the other dog. So I'm more than convinced that she is fearful of other dogs, but it is only when on leash. But I do not feel comfortable of letting her loose with other dogs just yet unless there is a fence between, so she can get some used to other dogs in this way. She did very well, and I was really happy with her today. Now she is tuckered out and laying on the top of the sofa back and my shoulder, lol. She just lays there watches out the window, but she's now half asleep, lol. She had a good day....

Edit:
Also, just so you know, this lasted about 25-30 minutes. Also, the owner of the min pin was also standing outside, about 20 yards back from the fence, and I was standing about 15-20 yards from the fence as well. We were both watching, and the other owner had a smile on his face....

Oh, Betty is now snoring, lol. And loud, lol.