Algae/Phosphates/Nitrates

GrandHokie98 · 11-20-2009, 04:32 PM

So i have two tanks, one 29 gallon and one 10 gallon, both have elevated phosphates and nitrates, but the large one looks great while the small tank is progressively getting more and more covered in algae and all the plants are dying.

I have been doing regular 25% water changes every week in both tanks in an attempt to lower the levels, but they never seem to get any better.

If i'm not mistaken, plants are supposed to like phosphates and nitrates, so why are they dying?

Here are the levels both tanks are the same...
Nitrites=0 ppm
Ammonia=0 ppm
PH=7
Phosphate=10+ ppm
Nitrates=80+ ppm

If more info is needed, just ask... i'm familiar with jeep forums and what info is necessary, but fish forums are new to me

stoddern · 11-20-2009, 05:05 PM

how long have the tanks been setup for? have they cycled?

GrandHokie98 · 11-20-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoddern

how long have the tanks been setup for? have they cycled?

the 29 gallon over a year, the 10 gallon at least 6 months

Newman · 11-20-2009, 07:16 PM

So they've obviously been cycled...
Sooo, whats going on in the tanks in terms of fish load, and how much youre feeding? Overstocked tank = very high nitrates. Overfeeding = higher phosphate.

having over 80ppm nitrate is pretty bad

is the water starting to smell odd?
Time for a BIG 60-80% water change to knock the level down to around 20-30 ppm. then another a few days after to knock the level down to normal of about 10-20ppms.

As for phosphate, see if you can pull any rotting plants or stop feeding the fish so much. make sure all the fish eat all the food you give em, w/o any just lying on the bottom and decaying... also if you reduce feedin by a bit, there will be less waste from the fish, and phsphates also come from fish waste soo, you get what im saying. Also concider not feeding the fish anything one day a week to let them "clean out their system" from food. this will also help with the waste issue.

For now i cant really think of anything else...but if you can tell more about each tank in terms of whats going on in it that'd be great.

OrangeCones · 11-21-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandHokie98

So i have two tanks, one 29 gallon and one 10 gallon, both have elevated phosphates and nitrates, but the large one looks great while the small tank is progressively getting more and more covered in algae and all the plants are dying.

I have been doing regular 25% water changes every week in both tanks in an attempt to lower the levels, but they never seem to get any better.

What type and wattage lights do you have on the tanks?
What plants are you trying to keep?
Do you add any fertilizers or CO2?
What type of algae are you growing?

GrandHokie98 · 11-21-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

So they've obviously been cycled...
Sooo, whats going on in the tanks in terms of fish load, and how much youre feeding? Overstocked tank = very high nitrates. Overfeeding = higher phosphate.

10 gallon:
1x bala shark, small
1x cleaner (dont know the names of the cleaner)

29 gallon:
4x cardinal tetra
2x blue tetra
3x fancy guppies
1x clown loach
1x angel fish
1x weather loach
1x cleaner (again dont know the name)

overfeeding could be a possibilty, and will monitor that carefully from now on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeCones

What type and wattage lights do you have on the tanks?
What plants are you trying to keep?
Do you add any fertilizers or CO2?
What type of algae are you growing?

1. 29 gallon : 1x 18W 24" bulb
10 gallon : 2x 10W fluorescent bulbs, also next to a window where it could be getting sunlight as well
2. i dont know the names of the plants, but here are some pictures
3. No, no fertilizers or CO2
4. only in the 10 gallon, type of algae: Green Spot Algae (from doing research and looking at pictures this is what it looks like to me, again picture below)

plants in 29...

cleaner in 29...

overview of 29...

cleaner in 10...

plants in 10...

algae in 10...

overview of 10...

OrangeCones · 11-21-2009, 04:47 PM

From the information you have provided, I'd say you have an imbalance in the 10gallon tank, which is allowing the algae to outcompete the plants you want to keep.

Aquatic plants need 3 things to thrive. Light (provided by light bulbs and/or sunlight), Fertilizer (provided by fish waste and decaying plants or food), and CO2 (provided by fish respiration and some gas exchange at the surface of the water).

If you increase one of those three things, you must also increase the others. More of one item and algae, which is a plant too, will easily outcompete other plants.

You are putting 2 watts per gallon over the 10 gallon tank, while only 0.62 watts per gallon over the 29 gallon tank. You say the 29 gallon tank does not get algae, so it seems that you have too much light for the 10 gallon, given your fertilizer and CO2 availability.

You can try to decrease the lighting over the 10 gallon. You can also try to increase fertilizer or CO2.

If you may be overfeeding, plus having obvious plant decay, I'm sure the fertilizer amount in the tank is not lacking.

If it were me, I'd increase the level of water in the tank (and keep it high) so that the filter does not splash (the waterfall). This will decrease the amount of offgasing of the CO2 dissolved in the water. I'd also add a CO2 source to give the plants a boost. You can do a DIY CO2 method or use a product like Seachem's Flourish Excel.

Good luck.

BTW, the bala shark needs a MUCH larger tank, and should be kept in groups, not alone.

Newman · 11-21-2009, 06:17 PM

also what you seem to have is a chinese alage eater, which can get annoying to your fish later on in their lives (it attaches to the like a parasite)

And float that anacharis ASAP. its going to rot away if you dont. Float it, wait for it to grow long roots, then plant it. it would be green by then. tie it with fishing line to the to to make it float.

GrandHokie98 · 11-21-2009, 06:20 PM

i know the shark needs a larger tank, and i'm kinda concerned what will happen when he does get bigger. I can put him in the 29 gallon, but i dont have room for a larger tank, and i dont want to get more of them until the tank has good levels. that aside...

i did the water change suggested above, scrubbed off all the algae, got new plants, stones, and filter. put about 3.5 gallons of the old water back in and topped it off with tap water at the same temp and pH. Checked the levels again....
Nitrites=0 ppm
Ammonia=0 ppm
PH=7
Phosphate=10+ ppm
Nitrates=20 ppm

So phosphates did not change AT ALL!! and nitrates went down a good bit, but are still high. i guess i'll have to do another 50% change next weekend.

feeding will be monitored carefully from now on, and plant decay will be kept down. Along with keeping the water level high enough to keep the filter from splashing.

If this still produces algae i'll do a CO2 thing, seems simple enough

Thanks for all the advice, i'll keep updating as things progress.

11-20-2009, 04:32 PM	#1
GrandHokie98 Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5	Algae/Phosphates/Nitrates So i have two tanks, one 29 gallon and one 10 gallon, both have elevated phosphates and nitrates, but the large one looks great while the small tank is progressively getting more and more covered in algae and all the plants are dying. I have been doing regular 25% water changes every week in both tanks in an attempt to lower the levels, but they never seem to get any better. If i'm not mistaken, plants are supposed to like phosphates and nitrates, so why are they dying? Here are the levels both tanks are the same... Nitrites=0 ppm Ammonia=0 ppm PH=7 Phosphate=10+ ppm Nitrates=80+ ppm If more info is needed, just ask... i'm familiar with jeep forums and what info is necessary, but fish forums are new to me

11-20-2009, 05:05 PM	#2
stoddern Little Fish Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 139	how long have the tanks been setup for? have they cycled? __________________ 10gal.- Planted Anubias Lanceolota, Water Wistera, 4 Blue platy's, 1 Male Phantom Tetra, 2 Female Phantom tetras, 1 Upside Down Cat, 1 Blue Gourami. 20gal.- Planted Anubias Lanceolota, Water Wisteria. 1 Gold Gourami, 1 Giant Danio, 6 White Clouds, 2 Bristle Nose Pleco's.

11-20-2009, 07:16 PM	#4
Newman Super Fish Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 2,810	So they've obviously been cycled... Sooo, whats going on in the tanks in terms of fish load, and how much youre feeding? Overstocked tank = very high nitrates. Overfeeding = higher phosphate. having over 80ppm nitrate is pretty bad is the water starting to smell odd? Time for a BIG 60-80% water change to knock the level down to around 20-30 ppm. then another a few days after to knock the level down to normal of about 10-20ppms. As for phosphate, see if you can pull any rotting plants or stop feeding the fish so much. make sure all the fish eat all the food you give em, w/o any just lying on the bottom and decaying... also if you reduce feedin by a bit, there will be less waste from the fish, and phsphates also come from fish waste soo, you get what im saying. Also concider not feeding the fish anything one day a week to let them "clean out their system" from food. this will also help with the waste issue. For now i cant really think of anything else...but if you can tell more about each tank in terms of whats going on in it that'd be great. __________________ Credit goes to Lludu

11-21-2009, 04:47 PM	#7
OrangeCones Large Fish Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Posts: 993	From the information you have provided, I'd say you have an imbalance in the 10gallon tank, which is allowing the algae to outcompete the plants you want to keep. Aquatic plants need 3 things to thrive. Light (provided by light bulbs and/or sunlight), Fertilizer (provided by fish waste and decaying plants or food), and CO2 (provided by fish respiration and some gas exchange at the surface of the water). If you increase one of those three things, you must also increase the others. More of one item and algae, which is a plant too, will easily outcompete other plants. You are putting 2 watts per gallon over the 10 gallon tank, while only 0.62 watts per gallon over the 29 gallon tank. You say the 29 gallon tank does not get algae, so it seems that you have too much light for the 10 gallon, given your fertilizer and CO2 availability. You can try to decrease the lighting over the 10 gallon. You can also try to increase fertilizer or CO2. If you may be overfeeding, plus having obvious plant decay, I'm sure the fertilizer amount in the tank is not lacking. If it were me, I'd increase the level of water in the tank (and keep it high) so that the filter does not splash (the waterfall). This will decrease the amount of offgasing of the CO2 dissolved in the water. I'd also add a CO2 source to give the plants a boost. You can do a DIY CO2 method or use a product like Seachem's Flourish Excel. Good luck. BTW, the bala shark needs a MUCH larger tank, and should be kept in groups, not alone. __________________ ~It is easy to dodge our responsibilities. But we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities. ~

11-21-2009, 06:17 PM	#8
Newman Super Fish Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 2,810	also what you seem to have is a chinese alage eater, which can get annoying to your fish later on in their lives (it attaches to the like a parasite) And float that anacharis ASAP. its going to rot away if you dont. Float it, wait for it to grow long roots, then plant it. it would be green by then. tie it with fishing line to the to to make it float. __________________ Credit goes to Lludu

11-21-2009, 06:20 PM	#9
GrandHokie98 Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5	i know the shark needs a larger tank, and i'm kinda concerned what will happen when he does get bigger. I can put him in the 29 gallon, but i dont have room for a larger tank, and i dont want to get more of them until the tank has good levels. that aside... i did the water change suggested above, scrubbed off all the algae, got new plants, stones, and filter. put about 3.5 gallons of the old water back in and topped it off with tap water at the same temp and pH. Checked the levels again.... Nitrites=0 ppm Ammonia=0 ppm PH=7 Phosphate=10+ ppm Nitrates=20 ppm So phosphates did not change AT ALL!! and nitrates went down a good bit, but are still high. i guess i'll have to do another 50% change next weekend. feeding will be monitored carefully from now on, and plant decay will be kept down. Along with keeping the water level high enough to keep the filter from splashing. If this still produces algae i'll do a CO2 thing, seems simple enough Thanks for all the advice, i'll keep updating as things progress.