Ammonia spike

FishyMike · 10-04-2008, 07:44 AM

I upgraded my tank (75 litre - 160 litre) about 3 months ago, put new gravel, new plants, old fish (dozen or so - loaches, tetras, gouramis etc) in, went through the cycle - all fine for 2 months. Then one morning (routine 25% water change the night before) woke up to cloudy water, ammonia 8+, fish fine, other levels (pH nitrate, nitrite) all good.
After the initial panic of water changes (up to 50%) and ammolock - fish still fine (lethargic but alive), ammonia still 8+, water still cloudy, other level still fine. After about a week - still changing water - dosed the tank with accu-clear - day later water clear, fish still slow, ammonia still 8+, other levels still fine.
Talked to the guy in the fish shop, said he'd seen this a few times in the last couple of years in well established tanks owned by very experienced 'tankers'. Said that it had to be a compound as free ammonia of 8+ would mean a dead tank. Suggested Zeolite in the filter to remove ammonia, been at it about a week , fish much happier, water still clear, ammonia still 8+, other levels still fine.
I read bbaron88's thread but all the blame seemed to go to his low pH levels.
Any ideas?

TAL · 10-04-2008, 07:51 AM

I used to get some viscious ammonia spikes after a vacuum or water change on my small tank...

Cant offer much to ya because it seems you would know more than me anywho.

Goodluck.

Lotus · 10-04-2008, 12:28 PM

Welcome to the site!

Check your tapwater, and check it after it has been dechlorinated. It's possible your water company has switched to chloramine.

Did you change anything in the tank just before the spike? A new filter, new fish, medications, etc.?

LtGtR2 · 10-04-2008, 03:53 PM

I have heard ammolock can produce inaccurate readings in the ammonia, thats my input on that but the fact it is sticking around only leads me to think of what i did my first time around.. Over cleaning the new gravel and everything. Although the cycle appears to be over i believe that a fish cycle is kinda on going cause adding more fish will just up the bio load and cause the need to grow more beneficial bacteria. As long as the fish are healthy though i would keep doing the same routine with water changes. Maybe post your Nitrite and Nitrate as well has pH and hardness so some one else can give you an accurate decision on whats causing it. Maybe exact count of fish as well!

MatthewLaw · 10-04-2008, 09:41 PM

when you did the infamous 'water change' before the 8+ spike, did you vacuum the gravel? could you just released some amonia spike of sorts?

i am quite puzzled too. Maybe an issue with your filter? but then why wouldn't the nitrite/nitrate really be up too?? very odd...

FishyMike · 10-05-2008, 01:43 AM

Here's today's efforts -
At 1100hrs (test tank water): pH-7.2; Ammonia-8+; Nitrite-0; Nitrate-5

At 1130hrs tried a water change (approx. 40% change) and changed out the zeolite crystals with a fresh batch.

Rang the water company - my area is not chloraminated (they use chloramine in the pipeline that sends water out bush), my area is just chlorinated
Tried testing the dechlorinated tap water: pH-7.2; Ammonia-0; Nitrite-0; Nitrate-0

At 1330hrs (test tank water again - ever hopeful): pH-7.2; Ammonia-8+; Nitrite-0; Nitrate-5

All day long, water clear, no algae, fish happy

Fish stocktake: Clown Loaches (2 off), Mollies (3 off), Tetras (5 off), Barbs (4 off), Bristlenoses (2 off).

Normal waterchange routine is weekly, about 25-30% change, lightly vacuum about 10% of the gravel (just the strip along the front of the tank) and rinse the filters in the bucket of tankwater, add water conditioner and plant food (no plant food added since the spike).

Nothing different in the waterchange before the spike started, ammolock only added twice since the spike (within 3 days).

I'm under pressure from the boss-lady to add some more fish (discus of all things) and I keep saying that the Ammonia thing is no good for fish but the little buggers keep looking so happy and healthy, the argument seems to be getting harder to justify.

DesignsOnYou · 10-05-2008, 03:16 AM

I can't think of anything that would cause the ammonia spike, but I am pretty sure that adding discus to that tank is a really bad idea. You probably already know that, but in case it will help to have other people agreeing with you, I wanted to affirm that. Your tank is already fully stocked with what you have, and the clown loaches will outgrow it at some point. Also, discus usually do best with a species only tank, and I'm fairly certain they won't get along with the barbs, and maybe with the other fish either. Ok, the only thing I can think of is getting your water tested at the LFS to see if maybe your test kit has gone bad? Stranger things have happened. Hopefully someone else will have more ideas. Oh, one more thing. If the tank was fully cycled before all this happened, then maybe the bacteria will be able to handle the spike in a couple of days. But I would get your water tested somewhere else just to be sure. Hope you get everything figured out.

10-04-2008, 07:44 AM	#1
FishyMike Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2	Ammonia spike I upgraded my tank (75 litre - 160 litre) about 3 months ago, put new gravel, new plants, old fish (dozen or so - loaches, tetras, gouramis etc) in, went through the cycle - all fine for 2 months. Then one morning (routine 25% water change the night before) woke up to cloudy water, ammonia 8+, fish fine, other levels (pH nitrate, nitrite) all good. After the initial panic of water changes (up to 50%) and ammolock - fish still fine (lethargic but alive), ammonia still 8+, water still cloudy, other level still fine. After about a week - still changing water - dosed the tank with accu-clear - day later water clear, fish still slow, ammonia still 8+, other levels still fine. Talked to the guy in the fish shop, said he'd seen this a few times in the last couple of years in well established tanks owned by very experienced 'tankers'. Said that it had to be a compound as free ammonia of 8+ would mean a dead tank. Suggested Zeolite in the filter to remove ammonia, been at it about a week , fish much happier, water still clear, ammonia still 8+, other levels still fine. I read bbaron88's thread but all the blame seemed to go to his low pH levels. Any ideas?

10-04-2008, 07:51 AM	#2
TAL Medium Fish Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 426	I used to get some viscious ammonia spikes after a vacuum or water change on my small tank... Cant offer much to ya because it seems you would know more than me anywho. Goodluck. __________________ 03 Gallon Tanky Wanky - Empty 38 Gallon Tanky Wanky - 1 young Betta Fish, 1 GloFish, 1 Pleco, 1 Rainbow Shark, 1 Painted Swordtail, 2 Peppered Corys and 5 Gold Pristella Tetras, 2 Swordtail fry (Hi-Q Test Tank) Check out my HiQ Zero Water Exchange System Blog at : http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/equi...st-thread.html

10-04-2008, 12:28 PM	#3
Lotus Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 14,778	Welcome to the site! Check your tapwater, and check it after it has been dechlorinated. It's possible your water company has switched to chloramine. Did you change anything in the tank just before the spike? A new filter, new fish, medications, etc.? __________________ Lotus and Ecotank's tanks "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

10-05-2008, 03:16 AM	#7
DesignsOnYou Medium Fish Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 493	I can't think of anything that would cause the ammonia spike, but I am pretty sure that adding discus to that tank is a really bad idea. You probably already know that, but in case it will help to have other people agreeing with you, I wanted to affirm that. Your tank is already fully stocked with what you have, and the clown loaches will outgrow it at some point. Also, discus usually do best with a species only tank, and I'm fairly certain they won't get along with the barbs, and maybe with the other fish either. Ok, the only thing I can think of is getting your water tested at the LFS to see if maybe your test kit has gone bad? Stranger things have happened. Hopefully someone else will have more ideas. Oh, one more thing. If the tank was fully cycled before all this happened, then maybe the bacteria will be able to handle the spike in a couple of days. But I would get your water tested somewhere else just to be sure. Hope you get everything figured out. __________________ 55 gallon - 8 Cardinal Tetras, 10 Rummynose Tetras, 3 Clown Loaches, Clown Pleco, Albino Bristlenose Pleco, 2 Peacock Gudgeons, Betta 5.5 gallon - Betta Slightly less than 4 pound chihuahua

10-04-2008, 03:53 PM	#4
LtGtR2 Little Fish Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 161	I have heard ammolock can produce inaccurate readings in the ammonia, thats my input on that but the fact it is sticking around only leads me to think of what i did my first time around.. Over cleaning the new gravel and everything. Although the cycle appears to be over i believe that a fish cycle is kinda on going cause adding more fish will just up the bio load and cause the need to grow more beneficial bacteria. As long as the fish are healthy though i would keep doing the same routine with water changes. Maybe post your Nitrite and Nitrate as well has pH and hardness so some one else can give you an accurate decision on whats causing it. Maybe exact count of fish as well!

10-04-2008, 09:41 PM	#5
MatthewLaw Medium Fish Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: PA Posts: 490	when you did the infamous 'water change' before the 8+ spike, did you vacuum the gravel? could you just released some amonia spike of sorts? i am quite puzzled too. Maybe an issue with your filter? but then why wouldn't the nitrite/nitrate really be up too?? very odd...

10-05-2008, 01:43 AM	#6
FishyMike Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2	Here's today's efforts - At 1100hrs (test tank water): pH-7.2; Ammonia-8+; Nitrite-0; Nitrate-5 At 1130hrs tried a water change (approx. 40% change) and changed out the zeolite crystals with a fresh batch. Rang the water company - my area is not chloraminated (they use chloramine in the pipeline that sends water out bush), my area is just chlorinated Tried testing the dechlorinated tap water: pH-7.2; Ammonia-0; Nitrite-0; Nitrate-0 At 1330hrs (test tank water again - ever hopeful): pH-7.2; Ammonia-8+; Nitrite-0; Nitrate-5 All day long, water clear, no algae, fish happy Fish stocktake: Clown Loaches (2 off), Mollies (3 off), Tetras (5 off), Barbs (4 off), Bristlenoses (2 off). Normal waterchange routine is weekly, about 25-30% change, lightly vacuum about 10% of the gravel (just the strip along the front of the tank) and rinse the filters in the bucket of tankwater, add water conditioner and plant food (no plant food added since the spike). Nothing different in the waterchange before the spike started, ammolock only added twice since the spike (within 3 days). I'm under pressure from the boss-lady to add some more fish (discus of all things) and I keep saying that the Ammonia thing is no good for fish but the little buggers keep looking so happy and healthy, the argument seems to be getting harder to justify.