cichlids - MyFishTank.Net Freshwater Saltwater Aquarium Fish Forum

Adrienne · 11-02-2009, 07:02 PM

Hello. I have a freshwater tank and have 2 cichlids, one convict, the other is orange. I also have two redfin sharks in the tank with them.. it is a 25 or so gallon tank, established, and I have had them all for a while. My problem is that I can't seem to get the tank right. My ph and everything is always off, too low, my water sucks, and I've tried everything to get it right. Water changes, aquarium salt, stress stuff, etc...my nitrites and nitrates are high, ph too low. They don't seem stressed out all the time, but I know they have to be. Nothing gets it where it should be. The fish seem fine, but the convict cihlid changes colors alot, loses his color and then it will come back. The orange cichlid is aggressive and chases him all over. The sharks don't bother with them, and visa versa. I don't want to keep adding chemicals all the time and kill them or something. I keep adding ph up and it's not working at all it seems. Should I let it be, or what?? I never knew a tank was such a process!! What is the simplest way, and what exactly should I be using on a regular basis to get this tank to where it should be??

Newman · 11-02-2009, 08:13 PM

Ph up and down are not a way to go because of pH rebound. my recommendation is to read more up on the relationship between pH, KH, and GH.

Also i would pick fish based on the statistics of my tap water, so that i dont have to go through the trouble and money of messing with the water chemistry. Red tailed sharks cant be happy in a small tank like that, and will out grow it. as they grow they will likely feel too much pressure, get stunted and die. i'd relocate them to a tank of about 70 gallons or even more.

The only thing i find you should be using in your tank is water conditioner. literally thats it. if you add something else you run the risk of something unwanted happening. best thing to do is to cycle a tank with the ammonia method, then after it reads 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, you do water changes until you get below 20ppm nitrates, and then youre done. take a reading of the pH and see what kind of fish would prefer that, and run with it. I believe youre making the experience of fish keeping much more complicated for yourself that it really needs to be.

Like i said before test your tap waters parameters and see what pH, GH, and KH you get.
and of course wait for more feedback, cuz my opinions might not be so accurate. :P

epond83 · 11-02-2009, 09:15 PM

yes adding chemicals is usually not a good idea in the long run. It apears your tank is not properly cycled and that is your first problem. Search around and find out about the nitrogen cycle and cycling a new tank if you don't know about it.

Cichlids are cool fish to keep but there is some extra work involved. If you are going to keep afican cichlids you should set the tank up properly and keep just them in the tank. 25 gal is a bit small so you won't be able to have a lot, although they are smaller then south americans. They do prefere higher pH water and will show better color this way. You can get crushed coral to add to your substrate to maintain the higher pH. Also a pile of rocks for them to hid in will make them much more comfortable, make sure it is stable. Also these fish will dig in the substrate so making the rock pile then adding the substrate is a good idea so the rocks don't shift form digging.

make sure to check compatiablity when getting fish, some african cichlids get along better then others which is important with a small tank. If you can return the fish it might be a good idea so you can get the tank set up properly and have healthy fish. Also it would be best to drip acclimate the fish since your water conditions will probably be different then the fish store.

Newman · 11-02-2009, 10:00 PM

I would love a description of drip acclimation. I remember it involved a bucket, some water that the fish came with, and some hose dripping water from the tank into the bucket? refresh my memory please. It should be helpful to Adrienne as well

epond83 · 11-02-2009, 10:38 PM

here are some well put together instructions http://www.drsfostersmith.com/VideoC...fm?videoid=176 you can use an airline with a few knots tied in it. I don't float the bag since the drip will even out the temp.

The put the contents in a bucket
set up the tube to drip into the bucket 2-4 drips per second
Water volume doubles pull out half, do this again. then put the contents into the tank.

I do this for more sensitive fish like otos and neons, or if i know my tank paramaters are different. LFS has the same tap water so for most fish it's not a big deal, but if you get live stock shipped to you or have sensitive live stock it is very useful.

JRB__ · 11-03-2009, 12:28 AM

Without considering your other issue (incomplete cycle)
Your tank is WAY to small for the fish you have. The convict alone needs that whole tank and some to himself. He can be kept with other fish but in a much larger tank. He make look like he has enough room but he doesn't and he'll only get bigger.
The orange cichlid is hard to say without knowing what it is. However he too has not got enough space and must be a larger or more aggressive fish, so he is dominant and bullying the convict. SPACE is your biggest problem. Even if these 2 cichlids are compatible to be kept together the size issue will not allow it. The likely hood is that the convict will eventually be bullied to death due to stress.
The two sharks you have are known to be very territorial and aggressive fish and intolerant of their own kind as they grow. The cichlids should be able to hold their own in any physical dispute however keeping a territorial fish in such cramped conditions with two, already pi**ed off cichlids, is only going to end badly.
Get a bigger tank asap. gl

OrangeCones · 11-03-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epond83

here are some well put together instructions http://www.drsfostersmith.com/VideoC...fm?videoid=176 you can use an airline with a few knots tied in it. I don't float the bag since the drip will even out the temp.

The put the contents in a bucket
set up the tube to drip into the bucket 2-4 drips per second
Water volume doubles pull out half, do this again. then put the contents into the tank.

I do this for more sensitive fish like otos and neons, or if i know my tank paramaters are different. LFS has the same tap water so for most fish it's not a big deal, but if you get live stock shipped to you or have sensitive live stock it is very useful.

I always drip acclimate fish and plants, but I do it much more slower, 1 drop every 2 or 3 seconds. It takes a long time, but I think much less stressful to the fish/plant. I also keep the lights off in the aquarium and the room and keep the bucket covered, to keep stress down too.

Adrienne · 11-04-2009, 07:44 AM

WOW. Apparently I don't know what the hell I'm doing and neither does my husband. : ) Dripping, cycling, I guess I should be happy that they're still alive! Whatever the case may be, Thanks for all the info!

11-02-2009, 07:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Adrienne Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2	cichlids Hello. I have a freshwater tank and have 2 cichlids, one convict, the other is orange. I also have two redfin sharks in the tank with them.. it is a 25 or so gallon tank, established, and I have had them all for a while. My problem is that I can't seem to get the tank right. My ph and everything is always off, too low, my water sucks, and I've tried everything to get it right. Water changes, aquarium salt, stress stuff, etc...my nitrites and nitrates are high, ph too low. They don't seem stressed out all the time, but I know they have to be. Nothing gets it where it should be. The fish seem fine, but the convict cihlid changes colors alot, loses his color and then it will come back. The orange cichlid is aggressive and chases him all over. The sharks don't bother with them, and visa versa. I don't want to keep adding chemicals all the time and kill them or something. I keep adding ph up and it's not working at all it seems. Should I let it be, or what?? I never knew a tank was such a process!! What is the simplest way, and what exactly should I be using on a regular basis to get this tank to where it should be??

11-02-2009, 08:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Newman Large Fish Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 815	Ph up and down are not a way to go because of pH rebound. my recommendation is to read more up on the relationship between pH, KH, and GH. Also i would pick fish based on the statistics of my tap water, so that i dont have to go through the trouble and money of messing with the water chemistry. Red tailed sharks cant be happy in a small tank like that, and will out grow it. as they grow they will likely feel too much pressure, get stunted and die. i'd relocate them to a tank of about 70 gallons or even more. The only thing i find you should be using in your tank is water conditioner. literally thats it. if you add something else you run the risk of something unwanted happening. best thing to do is to cycle a tank with the ammonia method, then after it reads 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, you do water changes until you get below 20ppm nitrates, and then youre done. take a reading of the pH and see what kind of fish would prefer that, and run with it. I believe youre making the experience of fish keeping much more complicated for yourself that it really needs to be. Like i said before test your tap waters parameters and see what pH, GH, and KH you get. and of course wait for more feedback, cuz my opinions might not be so accurate. :P __________________ AQUARIUMS: 40 Gal 1 Female Orange & Black Oranda GF 1 Female Blood Red Swordtail 5 Otocinclus 3 Swordtail Fry 3 Cherry shrimp 1 Gold Apple Snail Java fern, Anubias, Anacharis, Cabomba, Marimo Moss, Flame Moss, Dwarf Hairgrass 10 Gal 2 Otocinlus 20+ Swordtail Fry 4 Cherry Shrimp Dwarf Sag HC 2.5 Gal Christmas moss 1 Female Deltatail Betta Credit goes to Lludu

11-02-2009, 10:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Newman Large Fish Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 815	I would love a description of drip acclimation. I remember it involved a bucket, some water that the fish came with, and some hose dripping water from the tank into the bucket? refresh my memory please. It should be helpful to Adrienne as well __________________ AQUARIUMS: 40 Gal 1 Female Orange & Black Oranda GF 1 Female Blood Red Swordtail 5 Otocinclus 3 Swordtail Fry 3 Cherry shrimp 1 Gold Apple Snail Java fern, Anubias, Anacharis, Cabomba, Marimo Moss, Flame Moss, Dwarf Hairgrass 10 Gal 2 Otocinlus 20+ Swordtail Fry 4 Cherry Shrimp Dwarf Sag HC 2.5 Gal Christmas moss 1 Female Deltatail Betta Credit goes to Lludu

11-03-2009, 12:28 AM	#6 (permalink)
JRB__ Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 71	Without considering your other issue (incomplete cycle) Your tank is WAY to small for the fish you have. The convict alone needs that whole tank and some to himself. He can be kept with other fish but in a much larger tank. He make look like he has enough room but he doesn't and he'll only get bigger. The orange cichlid is hard to say without knowing what it is. However he too has not got enough space and must be a larger or more aggressive fish, so he is dominant and bullying the convict. SPACE is your biggest problem. Even if these 2 cichlids are compatible to be kept together the size issue will not allow it. The likely hood is that the convict will eventually be bullied to death due to stress. The two sharks you have are known to be very territorial and aggressive fish and intolerant of their own kind as they grow. The cichlids should be able to hold their own in any physical dispute however keeping a territorial fish in such cramped conditions with two, already pi**ed off cichlids, is only going to end badly. Get a bigger tank asap. gl __________________ ~ Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it ~ 10 Gallon: Planted Dwarf Powder Blue Gourami Dwarf Flame gourami 20 Gallon: Planted Breeding pair of Kribensis 68 Gallon: Planted Breeding pair of Blue Acaras Baby Tiger Oscar 2 Peppermint Bristlenose Plecos 170 Gallon: On Order. Will be stocking it with - Tiger Oscar Black Pleco Severum, one Gold one Green Black Ghost Knife

11-02-2009, 09:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
epond83 Medium Fish Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 424	yes adding chemicals is usually not a good idea in the long run. It apears your tank is not properly cycled and that is your first problem. Search around and find out about the nitrogen cycle and cycling a new tank if you don't know about it. Cichlids are cool fish to keep but there is some extra work involved. If you are going to keep afican cichlids you should set the tank up properly and keep just them in the tank. 25 gal is a bit small so you won't be able to have a lot, although they are smaller then south americans. They do prefere higher pH water and will show better color this way. You can get crushed coral to add to your substrate to maintain the higher pH. Also a pile of rocks for them to hid in will make them much more comfortable, make sure it is stable. Also these fish will dig in the substrate so making the rock pile then adding the substrate is a good idea so the rocks don't shift form digging. make sure to check compatiablity when getting fish, some african cichlids get along better then others which is important with a small tank. If you can return the fish it might be a good idea so you can get the tank set up properly and have healthy fish. Also it would be best to drip acclimate the fish since your water conditions will probably be different then the fish store.

11-02-2009, 10:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
epond83 Medium Fish Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 424	here are some well put together instructions http://www.drsfostersmith.com/VideoC...fm?videoid=176 you can use an airline with a few knots tied in it. I don't float the bag since the drip will even out the temp. The put the contents in a bucket set up the tube to drip into the bucket 2-4 drips per second Water volume doubles pull out half, do this again. then put the contents into the tank. I do this for more sensitive fish like otos and neons, or if i know my tank paramaters are different. LFS has the same tap water so for most fish it's not a big deal, but if you get live stock shipped to you or have sensitive live stock it is very useful.

11-04-2009, 07:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
Adrienne Teenie Weenie Fish Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2	WOW. Apparently I don't know what the hell I'm doing and neither does my husband. : ) Dripping, cycling, I guess I should be happy that they're still alive! Whatever the case may be, Thanks for all the info!