Insight, Help, and possible Backhanding Welcome

[breebrry]

Ok so... here goes...

First off my bestfriend has a gorgeous 55g tank in the living room in her house.. mostly goldies, there are 2 koi and 2 shubunkins, and i think 2 goldfish (one is about 6in and the other maybe 3). Anyway everytime I go to her house I zone out in awe at the incredible colors and beauty of these fish...

which inspired me to get a tank...

for about 3-4 months i was planning and i already had a 10g all i needed was the lid and filter and air pump...

anyway my little brothers and i went to a carnival one night and won 4 feeder goldfish..i left them in their original water and put a small amount of tap water in a large fish bowl and called it good temporarily (the feeder fish were maybe an inch at best) by morning 2 were dead... that night was pay day so i went and bought all the goodies for tank setup.. got home set up the tank added some Start Right and got the bubbles going.. still keeping Ricardo and Nacho (my fish) in their original carnival tank water dumped them into the tank..

Note: I read all day at work friday pages and pages of info.. they all said fish need certain bacteria in the water.. so keeping them in their previous water was a way to help "seed" the tank.

now i read the 1in to 1 gallon of water rule and know that does not apply to growing fish however i thought as a starter the carnival fish would suffice if they survived for me to learn on.. again i know they are already over stocked in a 10g...

After the tank was set up and running my lil guys were scmpering around beautifully and i was loving the look.. a few plants and a house for them to hide and play and a large (approx 3-4 in) bubble stone for a curtain of bubblage..

after that night all was well my friend told me to take home another fish from her tank a small goldfish (approx 2 in) to be a "momma" fish to the little guys... so now in my 10g i have a 2 in and 2 1in goldies.. all were fine till a day or so ago.. the little ones are fine still the larger was laying in behind the bubble stone very lethargic and not really into eating.. he came out and ate once food had rested on the bottom i saw him picking at the gravel..

yesterday again same ordeal..

today i come home and see my little guys have what appears to be ick on their tails.. now as i mentioned i practically lived at my friends last summer.. so i dealt with helping her diagnose fin rott and ick in her tank 2 or 3 times.. she happened to buy fish from a store that everytime she added fish to her tank they got ick...

now as i sit here i wonder.. not so much of did the store give her fish ick or is ick prominent in her tank and the others have become immune to its effects.. because my thoughts at the moment are that the new fish she brings home are healthy and being added to an icked envirnoment and the stress level rises with a new home and all the new fish... and therefore springs the outbreak.. (sorry that was an off subject tangent)

anyway they larger fish (from her) is as i said very depressed looking laying around the bottom.. whereas the smaller are zooming around perky.. but the larger fish shows not spots... only the little guys (proving my point about the ick in her tank) my fish were fine until i added the new guy and BANG.. ICK...

now 2 things..

1 i should have kept him in a "hospital" tank for a bit to be sure and 2 it is an over stocked tank...

but how can i solve this??

at the moment i read all the posts on goldfish and ick i could find here and opted with the rising of the temp (around 85) and added 3 tbsp of salt.. (i added 1 tbsp when i started the tank) so all together there is 4 tbsp in a 10g and the temp is up...

any other ideas would be awesome.. and as i said.. backhanding is welcomed and expected...


thanx...

<3 bree

[breebrry]

also i changed 25-30% of the water today and added 1/4 tsp of start right (to help with the chlorine and chemicals in the tap water) i dunno if that was a good or bad thing.. but...

[breebrry]

the first picture is my friend's tank (minus some fish.. we had a few fatalities)

the second is of my tank.. minus some water so the filter agitated the water more..

in the pic of my tank (after heat and salt.. the big guy perked up...*confused* any idears?!

[OrangeCones]

Likely ammonia poisoning which will stress the fish and allow disease to take hold. Until the tank is cycled, you should be doing daily water changes of at least 50%. Goldfish produce A LOT of waste for their size.

Do you have a test kit to see what your water parameters are? Most local fish stores will do a free or inexpensive test if you ask. You should be monitoring ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

PRIME as a water conditioner can detoxify ammonia and nitrite (read the label carefully for treatment of high nitrites). It does not interfer with the nitrogen cycle.

[Orion]

Welcome to MFT!

Adding the water from the 2 goldfish really didn't do anything to cycle the tank. For starters, very little bacteria actually live in the water column, the vast majority of bacteria live on the surface of things in the water. The substrate, decorations, filter media, and even the tank walls. Secondly, being from a carnival, I personally doubt that the water they kept those fish in was properly cycled to start with.

Some people say that the parasite that causes ick is always in the water. Some people say it's not. The fact's are that when fish are stressed, from things like being introduced into a new tank, brought home from the LFS, or are sick, this lowers their immune system and can allow the parasite to cause ick. So it might be possible that the new fish could have brought ick into her tank, or just the stress of the new surroundings or new tank mates allowed it to take hold. Either way, this is a perfect reason why a quarantine or hospital tank is a good idea. It gives new fish a chance to show any signs of illness, and get used to new surroundings which makes transfer into the main tank much easier on them. Also once fish are in the tank, don't add the water from the LFS with the new fish into the tank. You don't want to add what ever else might be in their water into your tank.

85 degrees is the right temp for treating ick for tropical fish, but make sure your reading about treating ick for goldfish and not tropical fish. Goldfish can survive higher temps for a while, but too long can cause damage because they are a cold water fish. I can't advise you much more on this part because I'm not that familiar myself, so just besure to research on them!

Good luck!

[homebunnyj]

Also, if you're using salt to treat the ich, then when you do water changes you need to maintain the sale concentration by adding a proportionally correct amount of salt to the new water.

[breebrry]

so today i came home and the temp in the tank still around 84 (no heater...just temp of room...) and still salty water.. with another partial water change before bed lastnight... anyway came home and one fish is completely clean of spots... the other has 2 spots (there were a good 10 or so on their tails) so i am going to do another partial water change quick and add a touch more salt and some start right and hopefully tomorrow we will be clean of spots..

NOTE .. i know not to stop treatment yet just to be sure... however i am excited to say the big fish is now swimming freely and seems to be doing ok...

[MissFishy]

Hey bree, welcome to the tank! The bad news is that both your friend's tank and your tank are overstocked, although both look very colorful and pretty. I suggest you take a look at either the freshwater stickies or the link below in my signature to read up on cycling a tank, since your 10g is overstocked, this will be a big problem for you. That is likely what the fish was suffering from, ammonia poisoning, and with the goldies in such a small tank, you will have to solve this problem ASAP.

Carnival fish are usually very stressed out to begin with and I'm not surprised Ich popped up on them. I suggest treating with heat for 2 weeks, I also explain this suggestion in the link below. You are on the right track though and kudos to you for coming on here and seeking help! Let us know what's going on with your tank!

[ValRasbora]

Hey when I first got my 10g my goldies got ich, too... Only mine didn't recover... You could maybe get a larger tank, just look in garage sales and on kijiji, one will probably be there. I can see how you where sorta hypnotized by goldfish's beauty and went and bought/won some... They are nice fish! They might have had ich "germs" in the water they where in... and you put that in the tank, right? It's OK as long as your fishies recover. Finally, good luck! Hope your fish recover!!

[misterking]

I think the above comments pretty much have it covered, but I do urge you to read up on the proper care of goldfish in aquariums. The problem with goldfish is they're large (potentially 1ft when fully grown), stocky fish that eat a lot and therefore pump a lot of waste into the water. Have a look about on ebay, craigslist etc for the cheapest deals but for your 3 fish I'd say a 55g would be adequate (almost minimal). I would never suggest putting a goldfish in anything less than a 30 gallon. They are, afterall, a species of carp.

As a matter of fact, our local annual fair came around today, and after a couple of years of not giving goldfish as prizes, they made a comeback, and one went to my friend. I actually dispaired whilst listening to her talk on the phone, about how she had a goldfish bowl at home she was going to put it in. I could have gone on for hours about the need to properly cycle the tank and how goldfish grow huge and that bowls aren't at all suitable, but it's almost not worth it. It's a sad fact that probably 90% of goldfish won at fairs will die in the first months due to inproper care and housing, and with a heavy heart I had to leave the conversation with "if it looks unhappy, I'll put it in my pond".