Insight, Help, and possible Backhanding Welcome

[breebrry]

i have been doing some research (again) and have decided that if my goldies don't make it i will probably do a heavy cleaning and then allow the tank to cycle for a while and look into some barbs and such.... i hope that they do... even just for the time being...

[homebunnyj]

Originally Posted by breebrry

i have been doing some research (again) and have decided that if my goldies don't make it i will probably do a heavy cleaning and then allow the tank to cycle for a while and look into some barbs and such.... i hope that they do... even just for the time being...

If by 'cycling' you mean sitting empty, you really must research more before buying more fish. Letting it sit does absolutely nothing to establish a healthy tank.

You need to get a test kit that includes tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. These should not be the 5-in1 strip kind, those don't test for ammonia and aren't very accurate.

Test your water daily for ammonia. Whenever it is over 1.0, do a 50% water change, I don't care if that means you have to change water twice a day. Once the ammonia peaks and begins to subside, test for nitrites. When nitrites read 1.0 or above do a 50% water change, no matter how often that is. This is how to keep your fish alive while the bacterial colony build up to be able to process the fish's waste products. Remember to add salt to the new water to keep the concentration at the proper level while you are treating the ich.

If you can get some gravel or a used filter pad from an established tank to add to your filter box, thereby 'seeding' your tank with beneficial bacteria, your cycle time will be significantly shortened. I don't know that I'd use some from your friend, though, although you are treating for ich currently....

The above measures should hopefully keep your fish alive through the cycling period. If they do happen to die, I see no reason to break the tank down, as the parasites can only live so long without a host. I would keep the heat cranked up as high as I could once the fish are gone, and begin to fishlessly cycle the tank. By the time the cycle is established through the addition of ammonia to the tank and daily testing to monitor the levels of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, the ich should be dead.

[bmoraski]

Thank you Judy
that was perfectly worded !
its because of people like you taking time to explain even if it goes upon deaf ears, that make this the best forum !

[homebunnyj]

Thank yew, thankyewverymuch......

[breebrry]

homebunnyj... i thank you for your insight however it seems you think i am not listening to anything you guys say...

when i said about leaving the tank to cycle.. i meant if my fish dont make it i would stop changing the water to leave the poop (amonia) already in the water to cycle...

and also as far as buying more fish.. i have no intentions of buying them until the tank is cycled... (if my fishies dont make it) i never meant i was just going out and blowing money to fill the tank...

also.. i have been reading fish descriptions for like 2 weeks now finding appropriate fish for my tank.. and ones that would live harmoniously together.. telling me to do research was kind of a duh.. and i was somewhat insulted..

i am not arguing any of the facts you said... merely i feel that you are looking down on me as though i have not been paying attention this whole thread...

i am sorry if this post upsets you.. but i was kinda upset reading your post..

thank you though for your insight..

[vahluree]

Originally Posted by breebrry

when i said about leaving the tank to cycle.. i meant if my fish dont make it i would stop changing the water to leave the poop (amonia) already in the water to cycle...

I think that might be taking a gamble. The problem is, you don't know how quickly the bacteria will consume the ammonia. Once they consume all there is, they will run out of food and die... then you are back to square one with an uncycled tank.
In order to keep the bacteria alive without fish in the tank, you have to be adding a daily supply of ammonia to literally "feed" your beneficial bacteria. You can add pure 100% ammonia to achieve this. This is where the test kits that homebunnyj recommended come in. By monitoring the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels in your tank, you can be assured that your tank remains cycled while there are no fish in it.

[homebunnyj]

I certainly didn't mean to upset you. I'm sorry about that.

I'm sure you have done quite a bit of research as to stocking your tank from your posts. I still research fishkeeping on a near-constant basis even though I've kept fish for four years now this last time... never mind the five years I kept fish in my twenties, bumbling through the best I could. That's why I come here, to learn more. Suggesting a need to research more is in no way saying that you haven't researched a lot already. And the fact that you want to cycle your tank indicates that you don't want to 'blow money' by tossing fish into poor conditions. I still get told to go research, so you might as well get used to hearing that, there's a lot of it in your future if you stay in fishkeeping.

However, your statement about leaving the fish waste in to fishessly cycle the tank does indicate a need for a bit more research on how to accomplish a fishless cycle in a tank. And, no matter how carefully you choose your fish, how much time and research you put into setting up your tank in the optimum way, they will only thrive in a properly cycled tank, as you know. As you also obviously know as evidenced by your efforts to gather the info you need to succeed, knowledge is a great help in accomplishing that. That's why you came here.

Miss Fishy's Guide to Cycling Your Tank explains exactly how to do it step by step, and there are lots of very experienced fishkeepers here who are willing to guide you either by answering questions or by pointing you to great sites with info on cycling a tank.

If we didn't care here, we'd just tell you to 'google it'! (Oh, wait, somebody here does that... sorry)

[bmoraski]

Originally Posted by homebunnyj

If we didn't care here, we'd just tell you to 'google it'! (Oh, wait, somebody here does that... sorry)

LOL
thats great !

[jo3olous]

Originally Posted by breebrry

homebunnyj... i thank you for your insight however it seems you think i am not listening to anything you guys say...

when i said about leaving the tank to cycle.. i meant if my fish dont make it i would stop changing the water to leave the poop (amonia) already in the water to cycle...

and also as far as buying more fish.. i have no intentions of buying them until the tank is cycled... (if my fishies dont make it) i never meant i was just going out and blowing money to fill the tank...

also.. i have been reading fish descriptions for like 2 weeks now finding appropriate fish for my tank.. and ones that would live harmoniously together.. telling me to do research was kind of a duh.. and i was somewhat insulted..

i am not arguing any of the facts you said... merely i feel that you are looking down on me as though i have not been paying attention this whole thread...

i am sorry if this post upsets you.. but i was kinda upset reading your post..

thank you though for your insight..

HMMMM For a 10G Tank...

I would def go with the fishless cycle. When I was new to fishkeeping I did a fish-in cycle, and wasted money killing 6-7 tiger barbs in the process. For a tank to cycle it needs the ammonia to get it started. Problem is ammonia at a high clip is bad for fish, so with fish-in, you do a water change to keep the levels down so the fish aren't harmed but this delays the cycle process.
Allow me to provide you with a simple image to explain:

Okay so in a cycled tank, this is the process that occurs (the plant is optional). Given that your tank is not yet cycled, the bacteria that converts the ammonia into nitrites > nitrates has not yet developed, leaving it as ammonia in your tank. That is bad for your fish. In a fully stocked or overstocked tank, the process is magnified making frequent water changes necessary. Even in an understocked tank, you should still be doing a 25-30% water change every other week at the least.

Now for when you've cycled a tank:

In a 10G your options may seem limited but you can still make a nice community. I would recommend this; Choose 1 schooling type of fish, then get 4-5 of those (preferably ones that do not exceed 2 inches). I would then choose some bottom feeders, and possibly a centerpiece fish. You may want to do something like this:

5 x Cardinal Tetras (1'')
3 x Corydoras Catfish (2'')
1 x Dwarf Gourami (1.5-2'')

I do not recommend buying a variety of schooling fish, because chances are they will not school together but they would school with their own species (don't do this: 1x tiger barb, 1x danio, 1x guppy, 1x tetra) In fact, those aren't even compatible!


Good luck and I hope this helps

[MrNiteOwl]

Well, I'm not going to comment on the cycling since everyone has done a great job of explaining that.... Where I do want to add my $.02 is in the researching.... This hobby of fish keeping is a great one.... especially when done correctly.... You can talk to people that have been doing it for a few months to 20+ years.... and a lot of the opinions and advice given will be different.... There is always something new to learn and there are so many different things about aquariums that you can't learn it all.... So when you have read up on what kinds of fish you want to keep.... read up on them again.... you'll find defferent books and websites will have or not have the same or totally different things on the same species..... That's why forums like these are great....

Another $.02 on Goldies.... the general rule of 1" per gallon is more like 10g's per Goldie.... at a min you want 20g for your first and 10g for every other Goldie.... you want to have very good filtration and keep up with your water changes.... not over feeding will also help.... Please do get a test kit.... most of us here use API Freshwater Master Test Kit.... online you can get it at about $18 and most LFS have them for $30.... but there are others.... as long as they test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate....

Hope this helps....