cycling, fishless..

[tameem]

I had trouble bringing it up to 5ppm. Im right now at around 4 I think. everytime i added a few drops, and checked, it wasn't changing the ammonia level, plus I was going through testing solution quickly.
elsewhere on another forum on the internet there is two methods: one is a add ammonia daily method, and the other is you add it once, bring it to 5ppm and wait. When levels fall, then you re-add the ammonia. well anyway, Ill keep monitoring and checking levels every other day.

thanks.

[iapetus]

It may just be that you're too timid with the ammonia. If the ammonia you had was pure, a couple of drops would suffice. But, you won't be finding pure ammonia for sale; rest assured that your ammonia was diluted with water. So, you're probably going to need to add more than just a few drops when you replenish it.

[Airborneguy]

When I did it with my 20gal, which cycled perfectly, I initially added 3 capfuls, and the reading was well over 5ppm, but came down within a week. Drops definately won't cut it on a 55.

[tameem]

hmmm..its definitely diluted, although when i open the cap its a very very strong smell@ this s*@*$ is dangerous. anyways, maybe I am being too timid. I took reading today again and its still at 4pm. If I were to add a capful, how long would I have to wait until I test it again so that the ammonia is distributed in the tank?

man, we are all getting so impatient at home, we are eager to get some fish but I know its important that this cycle process completes. maybe ill add a bit more ammonia...

thanks again.
I should also tak epictures of my setup for all you to see..

[tameem]

by the way, I just checked. The solution is 10% ammonium hydroxide, I got it from a local hardwood store (Ace). I added two cap fulls, that was way too much, Im getting 8.0 reading now. But I will leave it where its at and monitor.

[Airborneguy]

I wouldn't even bother testing for a few days... jsut leave it. If you are at 8ppm, that's fine for the beginning. Test in a few days and relax.

[FroggyFox]

I read through your posts...are you still using amquel as your water conditioner? If so I would ditch it and get prime or a generic water conditioner. Any of them will break the ammonium bonds and you won't have to worry about the ammonia when your tank is cycled...but if you are using amquel it can give you false readings on your test kits.

What kind of filter do you have running on the tank? Assuming its a power filter do you have anything in it besides filter floss?

Is the temperature still around that 82 mark?

What are your readings now for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?

[tameem]

Im using amquel to condition my water. I was using a more generic conditioner, but after some readings, amquel detoxifies ammonia in the tap, where other conditioners may not. If chloramines are in the water, some conditioners dechlorinates, hwoever, it releases the bond and does not nuetralie the ammonia that is released.
So I started to use amquel.
Amquel is a superior product, and false readings are commong, but only when you dont use the correct test kit with it. Only salicylate-based test kits should be used with amquel, otherwise you will indeed get false readings.

Temp is at around 83.
im using two power filters, marineland 200. they have the filter floss along with the activated carbon, thats all.
i added powerheard a week ago.
ammonia is still 8ppm, nitrites 0, and nitrates i dont test normally.

[FroggyFox]

Sorry in advance for the essay, but I hope it is maybe some helpful info....

You should test nitrates just once to see if there are any present, as that would indicate that your cycle is moving forward too. But it has really been too long for you not to have seen any movement, so I agree that something is wrong, thus all of the questions.

I really think you need to rethink the whole amquel thing. Its not just about the false readings. When the ammonia that you're adding in on purpose gets changed to a different form by the amquel, it could be hindering your attempts at cycling. You do not need to neutralize ammonia in a tank because thats what the nitrogen cycle does. High level, the nitrogen cycle converts ammonia to nitrite and converts nitrite to nitrate and you take nitrates out by doing water changes. When you take that first step away, the bacteria necessary to convert the ammonia to nitrites don't develop.

Also, I wonder if your ammonia is a lot higher than 8. Many test kits only register up to 8 and at any level higher than 8 it still says that it is at 8. When you have a high concentration of ammonia in the tank, those bacteria are also hindered from multiplying. That is why I usually pick a 4 or 6ppm measurement because you can tell on the kit that there is still ammonia in the tank, but not too much. You really only need to get that tank up to a detectible amount and then wait.

Bacteria etc also need oxygen, so running your filters and a powerhead is great, as long as the surface is being broken...so if that powerhead isn't breaking the surface of the water, see if you can angle it to do so.

Have you tested your water temperature with another thermometer to check for accuracy? If the water is too warm, bacteria will not grow...same as if it is too cold. I usually shoot for 80-82 just to be safe.

The reason I asked about if you have anything else in your filters is because same thing with amquel, if you were to have ammolock or nitrite pillows or something in your filters then it can also screw with the cycling process.

Last but not least, yes, there are some good bacteria products and some aren't worth anything. The only ones that I've ever heard of having any kind of actual good effects are biospira (which is refrigerated bacteria and best used on a tank where there are very low ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings) and one called... shoot Stabilize? Stability? I'll have to look it up, but its made for tanks that are currently cycling and already have ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings.

If I were you I would do this:

1. Get some generic water conditioner.
2. Turn off your filters/heaters.
3. Do a large water change & do not use amquel.
4. Turn your filters/heaters back on.
5. Wait an hour & then test ammonia level. If it is really low maybe add a cap ful of ammonia. Wait an hour and test again. You only need to get that ammonia up to a detectible level on your test kit, somewhere around the middle of that strip.
6. Leave the tank alone and test in a couple of days. If your ammonia is still the same, then leave it a few more days. Not really a whole lot of use testing nitrites or nitrates if your ammonia hasnt moved.

A big water change is not going to hurt your tank for any progress that it may have made because those bacteria mainly colonize on your filter media and are not free floating in your water. The only way that would happen is if you left your filters running and allowed chlorinated water to come into contact with your sponges, which is why I suggested getting in the habit of turning filters/heaters off while doing water changes.

[tameem]

Thank you so much for that great helpful information!

Here is an update:

For the first time ever, I noticed that when testing the water this morning that my nitrite is now at .25. Ammonia appears to still be at the same level, unchanged, around 2 or 4ppm. This is great news because we were talking of just starting over and going with a regular cycle with fish.

I stopped using Amquel+ at least two weeks ago and now use Stress Coat as my water conditioner.
To ensure accurate temperature reading, I actually affixed 3 other LCD thermometers (which is over kill) one on the farthest end from the heater and another on the other side of the heater. My temp is currently set to 83, and all thermomters are showing 82 right now.

The powerheard I bought is located just under the surface of the water and the nozzle is pointing at an angle up towards the water surface. I also have one of those bubble wands.

Two things we noticed this past week:
Little squiggly worms swimming around, not many of them at all, but enough to cause disgust for us. I decided to use CopperSafe and now they are all dead. I can actually see them clumped together floating around near the surface.

We also noticed what we thought there were other worms on decor, but rather greyish type particles floating around and settling on the surfaces of the decorations, any level surface basically, plant leaves, rocks, etc. I have no idea what this is, Im lead to believe maybe it's from the floss filter media, since the color is blueish? But I dont know. They just started to appear.
Prior to this, I added 10 lbs (now total of 65lbs) of gravel which I washed well as I normal do before adding it.

I also added Stress Zyme at around the same time, one of those small bottles. We would like to remove the decorations and clean the debris.

Any thoughts, responses??

Thanks.