Oscar Struggles w. Infection - MyFishTank.Net Freshwater Saltwater Aquarium Fish Forum

Big Vine · 10-09-2007, 10:23 AM

Other oscar owners may benefit from this, so I'm putting it here in the lounge for everyone to see.
Mods feel free to move and/or copy the thread if you feel it would be helpful elsewhere on the forum.

Simply put, my 6.0" (TL) oscar ('Triton') recently developed what appears to be a bacterial infection.
Visible symptoms were concentrated primarily on the gill-plate. (date of pics: Oct. 7, 2007)

These symptoms match some of those that have been documented over on the Oscarfish.com :: Home website by a member who goes by the username 'Doc Bottom.' Doc Bottom works for a vet, and he went so far as to have a tissue culture taken from his oscar ('John Satisfaction') and sent to a lab. To use Doc Bottom's words:
"The bacteria infecting John Satisfaction was Aeromonas veronii biovar sobria...and the drug that destroys it best is Enrofloxacin (sold by the Bayer Corporation under the trade-name Baytril)."

Doc Bottom's article on what has become known as "John Satisfaction Syndrome" (JSS) covers all disease-related information much better than I possibly could: Oscarfish.com :: Article Database The article also covers some of Doc Bottom's experiences with successfully treating John Satisfaction using Baytril injections, and it is definitely worth a read for any oscar owners who might suspect something to be wrong with their oscar(s).

Originally it was widely believed that the JSS symptoms were merely a form of HITH (hole-in-the-head) disease, which is indicative of water-quality issues. For Doc Bottom's oscar (and many other oscar owners out there), this did not seem to make sense---he kept John Satisfaction's water pristine, after all. It was not until his further investigation and research that the distinction between JSS and HITH has become apparent.

Up next, I will document my experiences in treating Triton.
BV

Big Vine · 10-09-2007, 10:35 AM

Some background information first...

Not long after purchasing Triton in early June, some pics I took revealed some concerning 'anomalies' with respect to his sensory pits. After much discussion with the folks over on the Oscarfish.com :: Home forum, it was concluded that this could possibly be the early signs of HITH. Not knowing for certain, it was decided that the best course of treatment would involve keeping water quality at its best (which it just so happens constitutes the prevention and cure for HITH).

Needless to say, I was perplexed.
I thought I had been doing a good job with regards to my oscar's water quality---performing a water change as soon as nitrAtes hit 10 PPM.

More was going on 'behind-the-scenes' than I thought...
I had Triton for probably a good month or so by the time I realized that my tapwater pH had changed (~8.6 vs. 7.2 in my tank). I also at that time conducted further tests and discovered that my tapwater contained 0.5 PPM ammonia; indicating the use of chloramines by my tapwater company. Unfortunately, my previous water conditioner was not designed to neutralize ammonia in the water (unlike Prime, which is what I switched to). I am now forced to age my tapwater to allow the pH to drop.

Up until a week ago my failure to use a heater in my 13 gal. bucket (for aging tapwater) meant that I was doing 20% water changes using water that was 10 degrees cooler than that of the tank (70*F vs. 80*F). Enough of a disparity to make somewhat of a difference.

Tiger barbs were also an insidious cause of stress.
Very first day I got Triton home, the barbs began nipping at him mercilessly. Within a day or so he began asserting himself, after which point they would not go near him. Matter of fact, he ate a handful of them in the months that followed. It would seem that I had no reason to be concerned, right? Well as soon as I got him home today, the 6 remaining tiger barbs began pestering him. They nipped at him as he lay at an angle, sulking against the gravel. He avoided them for the most part, but they still acted as an obvious source of agitation for Triton; hence my decision to remove them all permanently. I have also permanently removed what I always thought was a leopard cactus pleco who supposedly should reach about 8-10" yet, perplexingly, still remains at the size he was upon purchasing him months ago (meaning a bite-sized snack for Triton, which is a definite no-no when it comes to spiny plecos...thankfully he hadn't ever gotten it lodged in his throat before I removed it from the tank).

In sum, there have been plenty of stressors for Triton who, under normal circumstances according to the vet, ought to have been able to fight off infection on his own.

Up next I will tell you about Triton's experience at the vet's, his course of treatment, and the subsequent changes I have made to his tank setup in order to help him on the road to recovery.

BV

Big Vine · 10-09-2007, 10:42 AM

Yesterday I got back from the vet...60 bucks later (~$30 for the examination fee; ~$30 for the medication).

He examined my oscar, weighed him (apparently he's close to 200 grams), and then took a tissue sample (from the gill-plate area where the visibly affected tissue was). Left for a few minutes, then returned to say that it is definitely an infection. As to exactly what---well---he said that it would need to be sent out to a lab and tested to know for certain. He also examined Doc Bottom's JSS article.

He gave me 2 weeks' worth of Baytril injections---to be injected every other day. I asked him whether or not treating the tank with a product called Seachem Neoplex (a neomycin-based antibiotic tank treatment which, incidentally, Doc Bottom used toward the end of treating his oscar) at the same time would be of benefit, and he basically told me that the Baytril should do its job.

Some remarks I made yesterday afternoon on the oscarfish forum right after getting home from the vet...

"Poor Triton looks horrible...in large part due to the whole removing him from the tank fiasco (slimecoat damage mainly, which really shows up on a darker fish like him). Some minor scrapes too, but it should all heal up.

Based on what I see as he is in his 'sulking state' at the moment that I'm typing here, I now am able to confirm that the tiger barbs are in fact acting as a nuisance and stressor for him. Accordingly, I will be removing them permanently from his tank as soon as I'm done typing this post."

Up next I'll go over some of the changes I've made to Triton's setup.
BV

Big Vine · 10-09-2007, 10:47 AM

Now that I have permanently removed all of his previous tankmates, Triton now officially lives in an oscar-only tank.

As you can see from the pic, I also decided to remove much of the driftwood and some of the plants. The scrapes you see on his side were mostly from all of the upheaval yesterday when I had to remove him from the tank to get him to the vet...and that's not even the side that the tissue sample was taken from!

The benefits of the new arrangement should be fairly self-explanatory, but by all means feel free to ask questions about it and/or about anything related to what I have written in this rather lengthy series of posts.

I will now answer questions...
BV

Helena21 · 10-09-2007, 10:49 AM

Wow BV, sounds really funny to say that you took a fish to a vet AND you have to inject him! thats madness!
Was it a special fish vet or just a normal one?

Anyway, i hope Triton gets better soon

edit: loving that big flowerpot

MissFishy · 10-09-2007, 01:11 PM

Yeah, I want to know what the people in the waiting room at the vet said...

FishGeek · 10-09-2007, 01:36 PM

Out of curiosity what was the vets reaction to treating a fish.

Big Vine · 10-09-2007, 07:34 PM

Glad you like the flower pot, Helena.
It's kinda big, but I wanted to get one that would accomodate his adult size. Plus, it won't be stuck in a 'little' 55 gal. tank forever anyway---I've still got my hopes up for saving enough dough for a 75 gal. for Christmas.

About the vet...
Basically I had to call around to a bunch of places to ask whether or not any of their vets dealt with fish. Finally I found this guy (who, to my knowledge, works with your more 'typical' household pets as well), and we discussed a bit about Triton's condition over the phone before I brought him in.

I transported him in a cooler, so it's not like anyone in the waiting room was able to see him...would have been funny to see some reactions if they knew what was inside though, lol.

The vet seemed fairly 'matter of fact' about the whole thing.
My guess is that he took some time in the afternoon before I came in to give himself a little 'refresher' on fish ailments so that he'd be more prepared for what Triton and I had in store for him. It was funny, because he always commented on how strong Triton was whenever he had to scoop him up out of the cooler and into a bowl---he splashed around like crazy!

I'm certainly not looking forward to his injection tomorrow---which is the first one I'll be giving to him by myself. It's not so much the actual injecting that worries me but, rather, the struggling that will be involved in getting Triton up and out of the tank. I'll probably remove the light strips and glass lids altogether and set them aside on the floor so that I have space to stick a big bowl in there and scoop him up and out of the tank. Netting sucks, so I'm gonna try to stay away from using the nets, if at all possible.

Wish us luck!
BV

Avalon · 10-10-2007, 10:57 AM

Wow. Kudos for your efforts in getting Triton diagnosed and with the recovery process! Great to see people put forth the effort not only in helping cure the fish, but documenting it as well! I wish the best of luck to you & Triton!

JWright · 10-10-2007, 12:19 PM

Agreed...

I'd encourage you to log the whole process in as much detail as possible, it would be great to compile this all into finished article once all is said and done.

Best of luck with the treatment.

~JW

10-09-2007, 10:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
Big Vine Super Fish Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 3,895	Oscar Struggles w. Infection Other oscar owners may benefit from this, so I'm putting it here in the lounge for everyone to see. Mods feel free to move and/or copy the thread if you feel it would be helpful elsewhere on the forum. Simply put, my 6.0" (TL) oscar ('Triton') recently developed what appears to be a bacterial infection. Visible symptoms were concentrated primarily on the gill-plate. (date of pics: Oct. 7, 2007) These symptoms match some of those that have been documented over on the Oscarfish.com :: Home website by a member who goes by the username 'Doc Bottom.' Doc Bottom works for a vet, and he went so far as to have a tissue culture taken from his oscar ('John Satisfaction') and sent to a lab. To use Doc Bottom's words: "The bacteria infecting John Satisfaction was Aeromonas veronii biovar sobria...and the drug that destroys it best is Enrofloxacin (sold by the Bayer Corporation under the trade-name Baytril)." Doc Bottom's article on what has become known as "John Satisfaction Syndrome" (JSS) covers all disease-related information much better than I possibly could: Oscarfish.com :: Article Database The article also covers some of Doc Bottom's experiences with successfully treating John Satisfaction using Baytril injections, and it is definitely worth a read for any oscar owners who might suspect something to be wrong with their oscar(s). Originally it was widely believed that the JSS symptoms were merely a form of HITH (hole-in-the-head) disease, which is indicative of water-quality issues. For Doc Bottom's oscar (and many other oscar owners out there), this did not seem to make sense---he kept John Satisfaction's water pristine, after all. It was not until his further investigation and research that the distinction between JSS and HITH has become apparent. Up next, I will document my experiences in treating Triton. BV __________________ "The more it eats, the more it excretes." 75 gal. - 11" tiger oscar

10-09-2007, 10:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
Big Vine Super Fish Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 3,895	Background Info Some background information first... Not long after purchasing Triton in early June, some pics I took revealed some concerning 'anomalies' with respect to his sensory pits. After much discussion with the folks over on the Oscarfish.com :: Home forum, it was concluded that this could possibly be the early signs of HITH. Not knowing for certain, it was decided that the best course of treatment would involve keeping water quality at its best (which it just so happens constitutes the prevention and cure for HITH). Needless to say, I was perplexed. I thought I had been doing a good job with regards to my oscar's water quality---performing a water change as soon as nitrAtes hit 10 PPM. More was going on 'behind-the-scenes' than I thought... I had Triton for probably a good month or so by the time I realized that my tapwater pH had changed (~8.6 vs. 7.2 in my tank). I also at that time conducted further tests and discovered that my tapwater contained 0.5 PPM ammonia; indicating the use of chloramines by my tapwater company. Unfortunately, my previous water conditioner was not designed to neutralize ammonia in the water (unlike Prime, which is what I switched to). I am now forced to age my tapwater to allow the pH to drop. Up until a week ago my failure to use a heater in my 13 gal. bucket (for aging tapwater) meant that I was doing 20% water changes using water that was 10 degrees cooler than that of the tank (70F vs. 80F). Enough of a disparity to make somewhat of a difference. Tiger barbs were also an insidious cause of stress. Very first day I got Triton home, the barbs began nipping at him mercilessly. Within a day or so he began asserting himself, after which point they would not go near him. Matter of fact, he ate a handful of them in the months that followed. It would seem that I had no reason to be concerned, right? Well as soon as I got him home today, the 6 remaining tiger barbs began pestering him. They nipped at him as he lay at an angle, sulking against the gravel. He avoided them for the most part, but they still acted as an obvious source of agitation for Triton; hence my decision to remove them all permanently. I have also permanently removed what I always thought was a leopard cactus pleco who supposedly should reach about 8-10" yet, perplexingly, still remains at the size he was upon purchasing him months ago (meaning a bite-sized snack for Triton, which is a definite no-no when it comes to spiny plecos...thankfully he hadn't ever gotten it lodged in his throat before I removed it from the tank). In sum, there have been plenty of stressors for Triton who, under normal circumstances according to the vet, ought to have been able to fight off infection on his own. Up next I will tell you about Triton's experience at the vet's, his course of treatment, and the subsequent changes I have made to his tank setup in order to help him on the road to recovery. BV __________________ "The more it eats, the more it excretes." 75 gal. - 11" tiger oscar

10-09-2007, 10:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
Big Vine Super Fish Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 3,895	Triton's Vet Visit Yesterday I got back from the vet...60 bucks later (~$30 for the examination fee; ~$30 for the medication). He examined my oscar, weighed him (apparently he's close to 200 grams), and then took a tissue sample (from the gill-plate area where the visibly affected tissue was). Left for a few minutes, then returned to say that it is definitely an infection. As to exactly what---well---he said that it would need to be sent out to a lab and tested to know for certain. He also examined Doc Bottom's JSS article. He gave me 2 weeks' worth of Baytril injections---to be injected every other day. I asked him whether or not treating the tank with a product called Seachem Neoplex (a neomycin-based antibiotic tank treatment which, incidentally, Doc Bottom used toward the end of treating his oscar) at the same time would be of benefit, and he basically told me that the Baytril should do its job. Some remarks I made yesterday afternoon on the oscarfish forum right after getting home from the vet... "Poor Triton looks horrible...in large part due to the whole removing him from the tank fiasco (slimecoat damage mainly, which really shows up on a darker fish like him). Some minor scrapes too, but it should all heal up. Based on what I see as he is in his 'sulking state' at the moment that I'm typing here, I now am able to confirm that the tiger barbs are in fact acting as a nuisance and stressor for him. Accordingly, I will be removing them permanently from his tank as soon as I'm done typing this post." Up next I'll go over some of the changes I've made to Triton's setup. BV __________________ "The more it eats, the more it excretes." 75 gal. - 11" tiger oscar

10-09-2007, 10:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Big Vine Super Fish Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 3,895	Triton's 'New' Setup Now that I have permanently removed all of his previous tankmates, Triton now officially lives in an oscar-only tank. As you can see from the pic, I also decided to remove much of the driftwood and some of the plants. The scrapes you see on his side were mostly from all of the upheaval yesterday when I had to remove him from the tank to get him to the vet...and that's not even the side that the tissue sample was taken from! The benefits of the new arrangement should be fairly self-explanatory, but by all means feel free to ask questions about it and/or about anything related to what I have written in this rather lengthy series of posts. I will now answer questions... BV __________________ "The more it eats, the more it excretes." 75 gal. - 11" tiger oscar

10-09-2007, 10:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
Helena21 Super Fish Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex, England Posts: 1,828	Wow BV, sounds really funny to say that you took a fish to a vet AND you have to inject him! thats madness! Was it a special fish vet or just a normal one? Anyway, i hope Triton gets better soon edit: loving that big flowerpot __________________ 35 GAL - 1 Angelfish, 4 platies 8 GAL fw planted- 1 rummynoses, 1 khuli loach I really need to get some new fish...

10-09-2007, 01:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
MissFishy Super Fish Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,232	Yeah, I want to know what the people in the waiting room at the vet said... __________________ http://missfishy.tripod.com/ The Basic Guide to Cycling a Tank, Sick Fish and more! Updated 10/13/09 with a new layout!

10-09-2007, 01:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
FishGeek Super Fish Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 4,265	Out of curiosity what was the vets reaction to treating a fish. __________________ 44G ~ Equipment: Rena Filstar XP3 & 200W Heater *Inhabitants:* 7 Pristella Tetras, Marigold Platy, Koi Angel, & Female Betta 90G ~ Equipment: Tidepool & 300W Titanium Heater *Inhabitants:* 4 Texas Cichlids & Royal Pleco-L027C Other Pets ~ 3 Horses (Sunny-Roscoe-Luke), 2 Rats (Duncan-Bongo) & a Dog (Chance)

10-09-2007, 07:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Big Vine Super Fish Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 3,895	Glad you like the flower pot, Helena. It's kinda big, but I wanted to get one that would accomodate his adult size. Plus, it won't be stuck in a 'little' 55 gal. tank forever anyway---I've still got my hopes up for saving enough dough for a 75 gal. for Christmas. About the vet... Basically I had to call around to a bunch of places to ask whether or not any of their vets dealt with fish. Finally I found this guy (who, to my knowledge, works with your more 'typical' household pets as well), and we discussed a bit about Triton's condition over the phone before I brought him in. I transported him in a cooler, so it's not like anyone in the waiting room was able to see him...would have been funny to see some reactions if they knew what was inside though, lol. The vet seemed fairly 'matter of fact' about the whole thing. My guess is that he took some time in the afternoon before I came in to give himself a little 'refresher' on fish ailments so that he'd be more prepared for what Triton and I had in store for him. It was funny, because he always commented on how strong Triton was whenever he had to scoop him up out of the cooler and into a bowl---he splashed around like crazy! I'm certainly not looking forward to his injection tomorrow---which is the first one I'll be giving to him by myself. It's not so much the actual injecting that worries me but, rather, the struggling that will be involved in getting Triton up and out of the tank. I'll probably remove the light strips and glass lids altogether and set them aside on the floor so that I have space to stick a big bowl in there and scoop him up and out of the tank. Netting sucks, so I'm gonna try to stay away from using the nets, if at all possible. Wish us luck! BV __________________ "The more it eats, the more it excretes." 75 gal. - 11" tiger oscar

10-10-2007, 10:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
Avalon Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 2,824	Wow. Kudos for your efforts in getting Triton diagnosed and with the recovery process! Great to see people put forth the effort not only in helping cure the fish, but documenting it as well! I wish the best of luck to you & Triton! __________________ View my gallery here and join us in the MFT.net chatroom!

10-10-2007, 12:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
JWright Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Snowy Upstate New York Posts: 2,171	Agreed... I'd encourage you to log the whole process in as much detail as possible, it would be great to compile this all into finished article once all is said and done. Best of luck with the treatment. ~JW __________________ As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. -Benjamin Franklin http://www.fsf.org/