Need help with lyretail molly breeding

[beckyd]

I really like the fancy finned mollies. I found a LFS with a supplier that breeds plumetail balloons and lyretail balloons, but they wouldn't order me just a few and the supplier won't sell to me. (I don't need 20, they're mollies. Two will get you plenty!) Anyway, I have stocked only balloon belly and lyretails figuring eventually I'll get a lyretail on a balloon. I either have not had any luck because the gene is trickier than that or I am getting rid of the fry because of overpopulation too soon to tell. I can tell which ones are balloons. And bred with the lyretails, they have a very pleasing, less distorted body shape than my 'true' balloons. I have kept several to sexual maturity. No lyretails. Can someone give me a molly genetics lesson?

[beckyd]

Well, I'm still on my own here. However, my 4 month olds that are overcrowding my tank and need to find new homes have done it! There are clearly at least 3 balloon bellies that are showing a lyre shape to their tail. I'm so happy because they are really cute! I guess I just didn't wait long enough

[tonymac]

Even though your'e asking about fancy finned and ballon Mollies, there is an article about fancy-finned strains of swordtails and platies in the April 09 Tropical Fish Hobbyist titled Those Magnificent Swords and Platies by Bill Allen I think you should check because it may answer your questions. The first problem your going to have is in some fancy livebearers the gonopodium (male reproductive organ, which is in and of itself a modified anal fin) becomes so fancy itself the male becomes incapable of using it for reproduction. So be sure to check the gonopodium of your Mollies to make sure its normal, irregardless of the style of the other fins. Mr Allen also talks about something called the "lethal gene", that at least with swords and platies, a fish with 2 fancy genes may not survive, whereas a fish with one recessive normal and a dominant fancy may be a healthier fish (If I understand the article correctly). The article says that only 2 out of 3 young from fancy parents have fancy finnage themselves. So maybe you should try to cross breed a lyretail/ballon back with a more "normal" Molly and see what happens with the fry ratio. I hope this helps.

[guimsdifkl]

The first problem your going to have is in some fancy livebearers the gonopodium (male reproductive organ, which is in and of itself a modified anal fin) becomes so fancy itself the male becomes incapable of using it for reproduction. So be sure to check the gonopodium of your Mollies to make sure its normal, irregardless of the style of the other fins.

[Doomhed]

most likely the lyretail gene you are looking for is recessive, so you wont see lyretail balloon mollies until the 2nd generation.

if you owned a few more tanks you could put a few female balloon mollies with a male lyretail, take those fry, raise them to adult size, then put the females into the tank with a different male lyretail and the males into a tank with a female lyretail. bingo, 3/4 lyretail and 1/4 balloon mollies. You can simultaneously do a similar method the other way around and carefully get some 3/4 balloons, 1/4 lyres, then cross the 2 strains, giving you a true new hybrid strain that should breed true. the more varied the "pure" fish you start with at the beginning of the process the stronger your final result will be.

But the average fish hobbyist doesn't have a few dozen tanks and hundreds of hours to experiment.

[ValRasbora]

I remember there was a thread about this a while back... how to get ballon-lyretail mollies.

Any pics? They sound cuute!

[beckyd]

Well, my first generation of lyretail balloon bellies is nearing maturity. I think we will have fry soon. I rehomed all the fry with normal tails and separated a pair because I have blacks and creamsicles. Interesting note, however, the males are showing preference for the females of their own color. Odd. I have never noticed this before when I had many different colors. Now, I only have two. They seem to have segregated their pairings. While I feel I have somehow failed them as a parent for this behavior, hopefully I'll get better color fry. I digress...

Back to the point. They are cute! I am hoping to get a more moderate body than a true balloon- more like a dwarf platy. I can see now that some of the girls are getting really sway-backed. I think I'll pull them from the experiment. My favorite male has a nice little sail fin and I thought he was not going to be a lyre. I kept him because his tail had a really wide spread and his body shape was what I was looking for. Well, turned out to be the right decision because his lyre has formed now. I'll get a new pic of him and post it.

And while I don't have the luxury of tanks all over the place, I have enough tanks that will tolerate mollies that I can separate pairs as soon as they can be sexed to ensure a specofoc mating. My bettas really have molly buddies, although I don't have it on my signature. And the angels just might get a few tiny friends if they play nice. Once I see a sure gravid spot, I'll move momma back to the tank where the fry will do better.

Here are two of the females. Gosh, these pics are older than I thought. Their tails are longer and more developed now. I'll have to update their photos later.

[beckyd]

Here are some new pics. The first one is a female that is the perfect example of what I was going for, although my kids love the fatter balloon bellies, so I'll keep them in here and see what happens. The second is of the male. A decent pic of him, but not as good as when he's really flaring and feeling frisky. His fins are looking quite cute. They range is size from about 3/4" to about 1.25" including fins. They are small. I hope they stay this way. I am going for something smaller.

[Doomhed]

now if you can cross that crimson molly with a black molly I would love to see what comes of it. I haven't seen a crimson molly like that around here in a good 10 years.

[beckyd]

Me neither. That's a swordfish She's ready to drop a brood, so I can see why you thought that. She's a pretty girl. You've really seen a molly that red? That would be amazing!